Joe Hart (joined Torino on season long loan - Official)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Respect your opinion. Also agree that you were thinking aloud regarding certain things. Sorry if my post came across as strong.

The thing about a goalkeeper's distribution under a Pep Guardiola system is that although a keeper's pass may not be perfect, it has to provide a solution. Very important is the term "solution". The pass may be heavily hit or under hit, it may not go exactly to the intended player's feet, but it HAS to provide a solution. I am not a coach who can list out the many ways of providing solutions, but I think we can visualise the passes that the keeper is supposed to make to provide a solution to the opposition's tactics, pressing, movements etc. It is an extremely difficult skill to learn, especially when you are set in your ways. It requires particular intelligence to firstly, understand the situation, and then rigorous training to learn how and where to make the pass.

I know this. Pep knows this. And I have a feeling Hart knows this.

You mentioned Hart learning the kicking style of Pepe Reina - quick and flat. I haven't seen Hart make such passes. Pepe Reina came from La Masia Academy and I'm not sure Hart will ever be able to reproduce such technique. Again, this isn't a slight on Hart's ability. Just the observation that the outcome of training Hart (who is 30) would result in a not more than a pale imitation of what was originally intended.

I'm sure that Pep's decision hasn't been made solely on one half of a pre-season game with makeshift centre backs. Again the stats you show are insufficient in the sense that they only tell a part of the story. Hart might have made only 11 passes, 4 of which went long (2 which failed), but importantly, how many of those passes were really a solution?

I completely disagree about the part where you say that you'd keep Joe as the Number 2. I wouldn't. I have mentioned the reasons for that in my first reply to you. I just don't want the accompanying circus that will follow the goalkeeping situation. "Will Joe start over Bravo now that Bravo made an error in goal" are the headlines I dearly want to avoid at any cost. I would rather have clearly demarcated responsibilities for the two goalkeepers. That doesn't mean that I want the club to force Joe out of the club. If Joe says that he wants to fight for his place then I don't want him to leave. I just see that Hart staying will be an endeavour in vain. But it is better for everybody if he leaves. He gets to be a starter for a club and most likely performs well enough to remain England's No.1. City get along with their tutelage under Pep without any distractions. A win-win situation all round.


he was trying to do what Reina did...he never got anywhere near as good at reina at it but he definitely changed his style and looked like he was trying to at one point...(at least a couple of seasons ago)

I unersand what you mean about the solutions bit with the pass...ive coached a bit at lower levels so i can see where hart has his weaknesses...(its the same with coaching passing from other parts of the pitch really and especially from the back four into midfield)

the last bit about the circus that would follow..yes that is an important consideration and Im guessing it is something behind the decision to let him go (if that indeed what happens) - i think you are right that this could happen but I also think that Pep and the club nd hart and bravo could deal with that.....Like i said it won't happen i don't think cause I don't think Hart will want to (I think he would be daft to not want to try but thats upto him and i could understand his reasons if this was the case)
 
where does the idea that hart is a shit stirrer come from.....?????

you are now the one questioning pep...convenient to believe the bits you want to and to not believe the other bits that don't match an argument. I would trust Pep to be completely honest or at least not lie...if he didn't have a good relationship with hart I don't think he would say he did......I think he would either avoid or redirect his answer along another route but he has answered the relationship question directly

Like i said..im sure hart is pissed off (i would be worried if a professional sports person wasn't at this point) - but people are trying to put things onto hart which there is no evidence for......i can get him being dropped for football reasons but Im not sure why "fans" need to go further than that....mayeb its cause they feel that there argument isn't strong engouh without doing that...i genuinely wonder about this as I don't get involved in the personality side of footballers...i couldn't care less as I'm not at a level where i need to (unlike pep) so I'm not sure why other fans do....all i care about is what i see on the pitch...and this is where i can see why pep is dropping him......

the rest is just soap opera drama
I agree he doesn't strike me as a person that would give the press or the fans what they want just because it's easier, he's honest and measured and would either decline comment or give criticism in the most positive way not just say the opposite to what he's thinking which is how some people are spinning it. People want to carry on with their own narrative even when he's said something that clearly goes against it, as Mancini used to say though eetz normaal eezz foootball!

It looks like he's going and we'll probably never get that closure as to the full reasons for it, instead it will be one of those topics that will always split opinion but we'll move on.
 
Last edited:
Your probably right, but other than one on ones, IMO there is not a lot between them.
I think Willy will still be here all season, I'm quite ok with that
i think willy will be here also

im not ok with that as i think if he is ever in goals there is a chance he will cost us...lets hoe its just CC and maybe Fa cup he is in goal for and that Bravo gets upto speed very quickly
 
where does the idea that hart is a shit stirrer come from.....?????

you are now the one questioning pep...convenient to believe the bits you want to and to not believe the other bits that don't match an argument. I would trust Pep to be completely honest or at least not lie...if he didn't have a good relationship with hart I don't think he would say he did......I think he would either avoid or redirect his answer along another route but he has answered the relationship question directly

Like i said..im sure hart is pissed off (i would be worried if a professional sports person wasn't at this point) - but people are trying to put things onto hart which there is no evidence for......i can get him being dropped for football reasons but Im not sure why "fans" need to go further than that....mayeb its cause they feel that there argument isn't strong engouh without doing that...i genuinely wonder about this as I don't get involved in the personality side of footballers...i couldn't care less as I'm not at a level where i need to (unlike pep) so I'm not sure why other fans do....all i care about is what i see on the pitch...and this is where i can see why pep is dropping him......

the rest is just soap opera drama

I simply highlighted in your post
Pep has been nothing but complementary of Harts attitude and the relationship they have...so is Pep lying about that?
and responded that you were being naive if you take that at face value.
 
i think willy will be here also

im not ok with that as i think if he is ever in goals there is a chance he will cost us...lets hoe its just CC and maybe Fa cup he is in goal for and that Bravo gets upto speed very quickly


Cmon Simon, you know any keeper can cost us. I'm sure Bravo will have the odd mare.

Willy isn't world class and I'm not making him out to be, but he is a seasoned international pro keeper who is still a good option to have on the bench.
 
like i said...i wonder why you wouldn't if we are to "trust in pep"....as everyone keeps saying.

what I'm getting at is that people want to have their points proven....so they will highlight or come up with certain things...like the fact that hart is a trouble causer...there is no evidence to say otherwise yet when pep says he has a good relationship with the player (clear first hand evidence from a spoken comment a number of times by the manager who everyone "trusts in" people say...oh he is just saying that.....

Of courser they will have had words...probably cross words about the situation but people for some reason feel the need to then justify this with soap opera bollox
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top
  AdBlock Detected
Bluemoon relies on advertising to pay our hosting fees. Please support the site by disabling your ad blocking software to help keep the forum sustainable. Thanks.