Keir Starmer

[Vic]

Ditto. I’d rather it be registered who I’d actually want as my voice in parliament rather than who I’d prefer in a binary choice. The only chance we’ve ever got of moving to PR is if more people did it.

What you end up with from people not is the two main parties with factions in them that are ideologically miles away from each other, the only real common denominators are they don’t like the other party. As seen, that makes for absolutely shit government when they are in power.

So you think the last Labour government was shit? Debt down, hardly any operation waiting lists, no asylum backlog etc etc.

Things had only got better.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

I called you a starmer supporter as you defend him passionately here and won't criticise him of his actions.

Fair enough thwn I will rephrase the term to labour voter being loyal


as for voting tory plenty of posts on this sub forum has spelt my opinion of tory voters out, but I upset some last time I call them all cunts ;-)

I’m not actually a Labour voter per se, I switch my vote where I feel I need to, dependant on where we are as a country. As for defending Labour, it possibly comes across as that due to the amount of negative stuff posted by certain posters.

My personal view is that at this time Labour are what is needed and it’s not just about Starmer, it’s the rest of the shadow cabinet that make it for me. Rayner, Cooper, et al, all come across very well, unlike the majority in the Tory ranks.

 

[meltonblue]

So you think the last Labour government was shit? Debt down, hardly any operation waiting lists, no asylum backlog etc etc.

Things had only got better.

No, I thought they were good. I don’t think the divisions in either party were as big as they are now though.I also think Labour had a much better set of prospective cabinet members then than they do now, a few exceptions aside.

I’d 100% rather have Labour than the current conservatives. Doesn’t mean it’s enough for me to sacrifice my voice to vote for them though, particularly as I’m in a conservative safe seat anyway. As I said before, if I wasn’t, I might have considered tactical voting.

 

[west didsblue]

No, I thought they were good. I don’t think the divisions in either party were as big as they are now though.I also think Labour had a much better set of prospective cabinet members then than they do now, a few exceptions aside.

I’d 100% rather have Labour than the current conservatives. Doesn’t mean it’s enough for me to sacrifice my voice to vote for them though, particularly as I’m in a conservative safe seat anyway. As I said before, if I wasn’t, I might have considered tactical voting.

Not sure there’s any such thing as a safe Conservative seat right now. If things don’t change much between now and the election, with very few exceptions everywhere’s up for grabs. Your vote might not actually be wasted.

 

[meltonblue]

Not sure there’s any such thing as a safe Conservative seat right now. If things don’t change much between now and the election, with very few exceptions everywhere’s up for grabs. Your vote might not actually be wasted.

You may well be right this time round.

 

[BrianW]

It's a choice between eating pig shit and eating horse shit. You don't want to eat either, but you can probably get the horse shit down if you hold your nose.

My honest belief is that this country is utterly fucked and the GE amounts to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. The ship will still be sinking but you may just be that bit more comfortable.

I stick to the view that we are well on the way to being the equivalent of pre-1974 Portugal, without the sunshine and excellent seafood. And the sad thing is, we have largely inflicted this on ourselves, through national delusion.

 

[Vic]

It's a choice between eating pig shit and eating horse shit. You don't want to eat either, but you can probably get the horse shit down if you hold your nose.

My honest belief is that this country is utterly fucked and the GE amounts to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. The ship will still be sinking but you may just be that bit more comfortable.

I stick to the view that we are well on the way to being the equivalent of pre-1974 Portugal, without the sunshine and excellent seafood. And the sad thing is, we have largely inflicted this on ourselves, through national delusion.

I hope you really don't think that Labour winning the GE means we'd still be on the way to a fascist dictatorship.

One good thing about the Tories running down the military. There's not enough of the army left to stage a very British military coup.

They'd just get in Wagner.

 

[BrianW]

I hope you really don't think that Labour winning the GE means we'd still be on the way to a fascist dictatorship.

One good thing about the Tories running down the military. There's not enough of the army left to stage a very British military coup.

They'd just get in Wagner.

I don't think we'll literally have a military dictatorship.

I am thinking more in terms of declining economic strength (at best relative, at worst absolute) and increasing irrelevance in terms of European and world influence. (Your military can only ever be as strong as your economy, more so than ever now that modern weaponry is incredibly expensive. We spend a huge proportion of what we have on a non-independent nuclear deterrent, which is as much use as tits on a bull. This squeezes out funding for conventional forces. But it's really a different and subsidiary argument.)

The bottom-line problem is that because a substantial proportion of the voters are deluded, the politicians have to cater for delusion instead of being realistic. In the case of Labour, they know that most people like me will vote for them, or at least not vote for the Tories. As for the Tories, they know that a whole host of people will never vote for Labour under any circumstances, so they can rely on a lot of voter loyalty. While I am cynical about politicians, I sort of see where they're coming from.You (as a politician) have to work out what will maximise your vote, and you rarely, if ever, do that by being principled.

 

[west didsblue]

I don't think we'll literally have a military dictatorship.

I am thinking more in terms of declining economic strength (at best relative, at worst absolute) and increasing irrelevance in terms of European and world influence. (Your military can only ever be as strong as your economy, more so than ever now that modern weaponry is incredibly expensive. We spend a huge proportion of what we have on a non-independent nuclear deterrent, which is as much use as tits on a bull. This squeezes out funding for conventional forces. But it's really a different and subsidiary argument.)

The bottom-line problem is that because a substantial proportion of the voters are deluded, the politicians have to cater for delusion instead of being realistic. In the case of Labour, they know that most people like me will vote for them, or at least not vote for the Tories. As for the Tories, they know that a whole host of people will never vote for Labour under any circumstances, so they can rely on a lot of voter loyalty. While I am cynical about politicians, I sort of see where they're coming from.You (as a politician) have to work out what will maximise your vote, and you rarely, if ever, do that by being principled.

What makes you think our nuclear deterrent is non-independent?

 

[BrianW]

What makes you think our nuclear deterrent is non-independent?

Because it's basically a US thing. We couldn't really use it without their agreement. Not that I can conceive of any circumstances when we would want to use it. Killing someone else when you are already dead is a tad pointless.