Keir Starmer

Two Gun Bob said:
He seems a pleasant chap and come the election we may just vote for him. Unsure how he feels a penny drop in income tax helps out the working man in 2022? A £1.30 a week saving doesn't cut the ice no matter which way up you look at it.

He dances the dance gingerly and goes out of his way to appease the electorate with par eqsuisite soundbites, but on an electoral nature this man does appear to have legs. I particularly like the fact his party members are now singing their bollocks off for king and for country. That sits ever so well with me and maybe it was meant to.

Voted Conservative all my life but in this rudderless economic playing field would very easily scratch my mark into the red corner. I feel if we went to the polls tommorow then a Labour government would landslide it.
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I think it was Kier Hardie who once said that the working class are more naturally patriotic than they are socialist.

When you look at when Blair and Brown got New Labour in, one of their big selling points was patriotism.

A patriotic Labour Party who put forward policies for a working class that has ambition, will get elected. The working class don’t want an “it’s not fair” and “the other side are all cunts” outlook on things; they want positive, ambitious, and patriotic language and policies.
 
Psychedelic Casual said:
I think it was Kier Hardie who once said that the working class are more naturally patriotic than they are socialist.

When you look at when Blair and Brown got New Labour in, one of their big selling points was patriotism.

A patriotic Labour Party who put forward policies for a working class that has ambition, will get elected. The working class don’t want an “it’s not fair” and “the other side are all cunts” outlook on things; they want positive, ambitious, and patriotic language and policies.
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You're right.

I'm all for building the new Jerusalem in this green and pleasant land, I'm just not convinced Starmer is.

The Labour Party has had snake oil salesmen before....

 
The perfect fumble said:
You're right.

I'm all for building the new Jerusalem in this green and pleasant land, I'm just not convinced Starmer is.

The Labour Party has had snake oil salesmen before....

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The best government we've had in the last 40 -50 years. The government that did more for my familly when we were struggling than any other governement or Labour leader has for those others struggling since that time.
I'm okay now thanks to that help at that time, I'd like others to get that chance, your left wing idealism won't deliver that chance, just more Tory governments, Starmer just might.
 
Seems this thread has been taken over by the three comrades, unable to vote for anything that isn’t pure.

Maybe it’s because they can moan ad infinitum about how poor the Tories are whilst showing their surprise that they got back in somehow.
 
blueparrot said:
The best government we've had in the last 40 -50 years. The government that did more for my familly when we were struggling than any other governement or Labour leader has for those others struggling since that time.
I'm okay now thanks to that help at that time, I'd like others to get that chance, your left wing idealism won't deliver that chance, just more Tory governments, Starmer just might.
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Yet here we are.

The Blair/Brown government was better than the Tory one that preceded it and the one that came after and I've no doubt you benefited from it, as millions did.

But what remains? The answer is very little.

People have very short memories.

Blair wasn't ousted by the left, two right wing factions in the Labour Party slugging it out led to Blair's demise, it was a clash between Blairites and Brownites.

Brown was then elected unopposed.

And why do you think I'm a left wing idealist? I'm not.
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
Seems this thread has been taken over by the three comrades, unable to vote for anything that isn’t pure.

Maybe it’s because they can moan ad infinitum about how poor the Tories are whilst showing their surprise that they got back in somehow.
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You're being silly.

The Labour party proclaims itself a broad church, but it clearly isn't. If anyone takes exception to this they're branded left wing zealots in pursuit of ideological purity. When in reality the real zealots in the party are the right, they're ruthless, all the evidence is there, the purges, the smears, the lies, the expulsions, in many ways it's to be admired.

But then they do have the establishment covering their backs.
 
The perfect fumble said:
Yet here we are.

The Blair/Brown government was better than the Tory one that preceded it and the one that came after and I've no doubt you benefited from it, as millions did.

But what remains? The answer is very little.

People have very short memories.

Blair wasn't ousted by the left, two right wing factions in the Labour Party slugging it out led to Blair's demise, it was a clash between Blairites and Brownites.

Brown was then elected unopposed.

And why do you think I'm a left wing idealist? I'm not.
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Yet you call Balir the snakeoil salesman and would prefer leaders that have delivered only more and more right wing tory governments. What reason could you have for that other that an idealistic view of Labour that can never deliver over a pragmatic one that can deliver at least in part.
 
The perfect fumble said:
You're being silly.

The Labour party proclaims itself a broad church, but it clearly isn't. If anyone takes exception to this they're branded left wing zealots in pursuit of ideological purity. When in reality the real zealots in the party are the right, they're ruthless, all the evidence is there, the purges, the smears, the lies, the expulsions, in many ways it's to be admired.

But then they do have the establishment covering their backs.
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I don’t really care. We need the Tories out more than we need to make sure Labour is left enough of centre for you to vote for them.

I doubt many Ukippers vote Labour because the Tories aren’t right wing enough.
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
I don’t really care. We need the Tories out more than we need to make sure Labour is left enough of centre for you to vote for them.

I doubt many Ukippers vote Labour because the Tories aren’t right wing enough.
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Read my post!

It isn't about Labour being left enough, I want Labour to be a Social Democratic Party, not an American Democratic Party.
 
The perfect fumble said:
Read my post!

It isn't Labour being left enough, I want Labour to be a Social Democratic Party, not an American Democratic Party.
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Cool, whatever your reasoning, a vote against the Labour Party increases the chances of the Tories winning.

I’d love us to be like Denmark, but we can’t vote for that at the next GE. All we can do is stop becoming US-lite and go from there.
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
Ah, you’re turning into Bigga. Shame.

Seems you’d rather keep the Tories in power to make sure this doesn’t happen.

An interesting take.
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You don't have an answer.

Let me get something straight, I can't stand much of the left in the Labour Party, I despise the London-centric, public school entitled tossers, feigning a East End accent, wallowing in identity politics, spotty Herberts who wouldn't piss on the working class if they were on fire.

But without them and the remnants of the working class left, Labour will turn into the US Democrats as sure as eggs is eggs, if only coz the membership fees and Union subs will dry up and Starmer will have to go begging to the likes of Sainsburys.

The Labour Party is absolutely skint, you do know that?

A word in your shell like, if you want to debate that's fine, but insult me again and I'm off to the Smiths thread to slash my wrists.
 
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The perfect fumble said:
You don't have an answer.

Let me get something straight with you, I can't stand much of the left in the Labour Party, I despise the London-centric, public school entitled tossers, feigning a East End accent, wallowing in identity politics, spotty Herberts who wouldn't piss on the working class if they were on fire.

But without them and what's left of the working class left in the Party, Labour will turn into the US Democrats as sure as eggs is eggs, if only coz the membership fees and Union subs will dry up and Starmer will have to go begging to the likes of Sainsburys for dosh.

The Labour Party is absolutely skint, you do know that?

A word in your shell like, if you want to debate that's fine, but insult me again and I'm off to the Smiths thread to cut my wrists.
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Lots of words. Your inaction/inability allows the chances of a Tory victory at the next election, doesn't it?

Now, in an ideal world, I’d love to take all you’ve said into consideration whilst voting, but if I did that and voted Green or for whoever, it means the Tories are more likely to get in than if I voted Labour.
 
Anyone reading this would think that the US Democrats are worse than the Tories or the US Republicans.

If a party with similar policies to the US Democrats were to get in, it would be infinitely better than the current shit show.

That will prove to the usual suspects that I’m a neolib but I have as much respect for their opinions as I have in Kwarteng’s ability to run an economy.
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
Lots of words. Your inaction/inability allows the chances of a Tory victory at the next election, doesn't it?

Now, in an ideal world, I’d love to take all you’ve said into consideration whilst voting, but if I did that and voted Green or for whoever, it means the Tories are more likely to get in than if I voted Labour.
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I've not encouraged you to vote for any party other than Labour.

Let's call it a day.
 
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