Kevin De Bruyne - 2016/17 performances

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teddykgb said:
While KDB's work rate is not necessarily perfect he's a manager's type of player in that he follows instructions. De Bruyne worked back a lot more yesterday than people recognize and was playing the actual role of CM quite responsibly. It's fine to want Nasri in that role but it'll take a lot more than a 10 minute cameo with no defensive responsibility for me to trust him as an actual #8.
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This is the thing as well. If he is to play deeper, people will have to get to grips with him less obviously effecting a game. He will probably fly under the radar because a lot of his good work will look fairly simple and it will be the job of the players ahead of him who will be in stronger positions to play the incisive pass or score the goal. That said, I'd sooner him play further forward and give Nasri a go in that position....once he's fully fit. I have my reservations about him still but I do think once he knows Pep believes in him we will see a different Nasri. He has too much talent to give up on for me. Him, Silva and Gundogan together would be amazing imo. I'd move Dinho to right back where I still think he's brilliant anyway...especially in this system where the full backs often occupy the middle.
 
Silva got on the ball a lot. without a doubt. And you want him on the ball, he's a goddamned magician. But Silva is drifting out of his lanes to get on the ball. This puts KDB in a funny position. He can drift with him or he can hold the position on the pitch he's supposed to hold in order to maintain the positional discipline his manager requires and to be in place should the other team counter attack. This is the biggest difference between us under MP and thus far under Pep. If you seriously re watch yesterday's match you'll find KDB as or near the lone player back on multiple occasions. This would have been unfathomable last season as our designated 'attackers' would just wander all over the pitch trying to create triangles and when the attack died they'd think "aw well job done" and watch the defenders try to do their part.

I share some of the concerns about KDB's dribbling and close control -- particularly his one touch passing which can be wayward at times in tight spaces. He's clearly a player who thrives in space. But I don't want people to neglect to recognize the contribution he's making the role he's being asked to play. There is only one ball on the pitch and if our attack tends to favor one direction over another there's not much he's going to be able to do about it except get on with the other responsibilities he has. Which are considerably more this season than last.
 
ono said:
I agree it's amazing how a goal changes people's perception of a performance. But I still feel we get more from him when he is further forward. I think Nasri is more suited in a deeper role purely because I think he retains the ball better is better at creating angles
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It's swings & roundabouts.

As Silva has pointed out today, we are not building a Barca or Bayern copy, we are building something new. If Sane, Sterling etc are hairing away on a counter attack you would back.DeBruyne to find them with a raking pass from deep every time above Silva or Nasri.

Alternatively, he himself is great moving on the counter attack.

I expect we will see both.
 
teddykgb said:
Silva got on the ball a lot. without a doubt. And you want him on the ball, he's a goddamned magician. But Silva is drifting out of his lanes to get on the ball. This puts KDB in a funny position. He can drift with him or he can hold the position on the pitch he's supposed to hold in order to maintain the positional discipline his manager requires and to be in place should the other team counter attack. This is the biggest difference between us under MP and thus far under Pep. If you seriously re watch yesterday's match you'll find KDB as or near the lone player back on multiple occasions. This would have been unfathomable last season as our designated 'attackers' would just wander all over the pitch trying to create triangles and when the attack died they'd think "aw well job done" and watch the defenders try to do their part.

I share some of the concerns about KDB's dribbling and close control -- particularly his one touch passing which can be wayward at times in tight spaces. He's clearly a player who thrives in space. But I don't want people to neglect to recognize the contribution he's making the role he's being asked to play. There is only one ball on the pitch and if our attack tends to favor one direction over another there's not much he's going to be able to do about it except get on with the other responsibilities he has. Which are considerably more this season than last.
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That's what I was referring to when I mentioned 'Colin Bell Syndrome' in this discussion. The guy doing the clever pasees & flicks gets noticed while Bell has a part in all the goals & stops several possibly fatal oppo attacks. He's just had an 'average' game.
 
Neville Kneville said:
That's what I was referring to when I mentioned 'Colin Bell Syndrome' in this discussion. The guy doing the clever pasees & flicks gets noticed while Bell has a part in all the goals & stops several possibly fatal oppo attacks. He's just had an 'average' game.
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Yeah, and it's not having a go at Silva. I'm incredibly ... almost proud... at both of them for being able to play this CM role responsibly. It's a testament to each player that they've really embraced what is being asked of them. If KDB stays in this position the key will be finding him with more cut backs like the one that took a deflection yesterday. He can be that late arriving menace at the edge of the box when the everyone is overcommitted and turned.
 
Every time KdB makes the run outside, Sterling opts to cut inside rather than pass to KdB. Happened about 5-6 times in the first half yesterday. And we know KdB's balls from outside are mint. Sterling has to mix it up to keep opponent guessing and also get KdB to think he is involved more. Else, slowly KdB will stop making those runs which is an important piece of movement to create space, and thats what happened as the game went on. Im sure Pep will hv a word with Sterling about this.

KdB has never played his football relying on movement, control and decision-making in tight spaces. All three are new to him, especially the last bit. So obvious, he wont be as comfortable as a spanish #8. But if there is anyone who can teach him these things, it is Pep. Hopefully he learns and doesnt start sulking coz he is not scoring goals. He is improving game and game and that is very heartening to see. Imagine our team when both our #8s are firing and the 2 #8s and 2 wingers keep interchanging positions seamlessly and they hv worked out an understanding of every combination. That will be so fluid & decisive!
 
His best game in his new position so far.

I can only think of once that he gave it away cheaply.

He and Silva will very often make the pass before the assist this season. Their stats will be down but influence on the game up.
 
teddykgb said:
Yeah, and it's not having a go at Silva. I'm incredibly ... almost proud... at both of them for being able to play this CM role responsibly. It's a testament to each player that they've really embraced what is being asked of them. If KDB stays in this position the key will be finding him with more cut backs like the one that took a deflection yesterday. He can be that late arriving menace at the edge of the box when the everyone is overcommitted and turned.
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I could imagine a game where both Silva & KDB play in the front 3, likewise either or both in centre mid. We have so many possibilities & variations when everyone gets fit. Even moreso if Nasri is involved as well.

I doubt Pep knows which options are best or if it will be totally different depending on the oppo. He is still finding out about his players.

The great thing to me is that people are starting to realise how good our players actually are, & how varied our systems coud be after being duped into thinking they are mostly shit & one dimensional.

We have some amazing possibilities to explore.
 
Josep said:
KdB has never played his football relying on movement, control and decision-making in tight spaces. All three are new to him, especially the last bit. So obvious, he wont be as comfortable as a spanish #8. But if there is anyone who can teach him these things, it is Pep. Hopefully he learns and doesnt start sulking coz he is not scoring goals. He is improving game and game and that is very heartening to see. Imagine our team when both our #8s are firing and the 2 #8s and 2 wingers keep interchanging positions seamlessly and they hv worked out an understanding of every combination. That will be so fluid & decisive!
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Good post. He obviously prefers to play in the middle but the only way I can see him having a sulk is if he's denied game time and I really don't see that happening. He's already proven how important a player he is for us and even when he's not at 100% the opponents can't afford to take their eye off him even for a split second.
 
Gundogan & Sane (if used centrally) will bench him, I have no even the slightest doubt. My opinion hasn't changed after the last game. Wing or bench - that's the question. Nasri's possible revival makes it even more complicated for KdB.
 
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Andrew___K said:
Gundogan & Sane (if used centrally) will bench him, I have no even the slightest doubt. My opinion haven't changed after the last game. Wing or bench - that's the question.
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We certainly have an extremely talented front line with lots of competition for spots - even more so if Nasri is staying. I'd like to hope that Pep will figure out how to utilize all this talent. As you say though, KDB isn't comfortably in the 8 role - at least not yet - so Pep is bound to play him in an area which better suits him and benefits the team.

I still kind of think that Gundogan will play the pivot, Sane wide which leaves a spot for KDB (or Nasri) in one of the 8s.
 
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Terra Passenger said:
I still kind of think that Gundogan will play the pivot, Sane wide which leaves a spot for KDB (or Nasri) in one of the 8s.
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I personally think that Gundogan as a lone pivot is almost impossible, but time will tell. As for Sane, there will be a great temptation to retrain him gradually to a hybrid role, Totti/Leo type, and move to the centre. Sane is a special player, it would be wasteful for him to be 'just a winger'.
 
Andrew___K said:
Gundogan & Sane (if used centrally) will bench him, I have no even the slightest doubt. My opinion hasn't changed after the last game. Wing or bench - that's the question. Nasri's possible revival makes it even more complicated for KdB.
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There is no better dead-ball delivery or even final-ball from wide, than KdB. It is such a huuge weapon! But yes, he is still to work on other aspects. He gives a directness that I like. Oh man, what a problem for Pep to hv. So many attacking options and I am sure he is more inclined to fit them all in, rather than leave any out - bless him! Lets leave out Clichy, Zaba. I dont want to bench KdB, even though he is still coming to terms with his role. Lets fit all these gems in ;)

The bigger issue I saw in these games is we hv still not entirely grasped how and whom to press. It is strategic. And it needs to be done efficiently. Our players are still doing it kind of like kindergarten kids in school, of course improving, but not like second nature of Barca players. But I think the City players will take to Pep's system faster than Bayern players.
 
Josep said:
The bigger issue I saw in these games is we hv still not entirely grasped how and whom to press. It is strategic.
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Very well spotted! But it's not the only problem. KdB is not 'industrial' enough. According to the heatmaps, Silva has operated in a twice wider area.
Josep said:
Our players are still doing it kind of like kindergarten kids in school, of course improving, but not like second nature of Barca players.
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That's the reason we desperately need 19-20 y. olds for midfield (Zinchenko, Coric etc.) right now. To educate them, to change basic reflexes in a right way.
Josep said:
But I think the City players will take to Pep's system faster than Bayern players.
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Actually Bayern players (and their board) have never grasped it. Pep just gave up and changed himself for the final year (though the result was nevertheless remarkable - second leg vs Atl.Madrid was like Mahler was risen and has written a football symphony!)
 
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Andrew___K said:
Very well spotted! But it's not the only problem. KdB is not 'industrial' enough. According to the heatmaps, Silva has operated in a twice wider area.

That's the reason we desperately need 19-20 y. olds for midfield (Zinchenko, Coric etc.) right now. To educate them, to change basic reflexes in a right way.

Actually Bayern players (and their board) have never grasped it. Pep just gave up and changed himself for the final year (though the result was nevertheless remarkable - second leg vs Atl.Madrid was like Mahler was risen and has written a football symphony!)
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Wow, didnt know somebody in these forums would hv the exact same thoughts as me. Totally agree!
 
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