Kevin De Bruyne 2016/17

[schfc6]

Last season the biggest problem from an attacking point of view was a lack of direct play. Too much keepin the ball with no end product. We had been "found out" according to many. The club recognized this and bought players to give us diversity in our play.

In terms of KDB being a playmaker it's quite surprising that people don't think he is that and can't cement that role at City. If its based on his passing stats in the last two months then I'd say that they are at least comparable to Silva's. Neither has been in blistering form it's just one of them is at least delivering end product.

It's not based on his passing stats over two months, it's based on his general play whilst at City compared to Silva's years of outstanding and obvious attributes.
Are there times when playing with De Bruyne centrally will trump Silva? Yes, most certainly. Unfortunately not in many PL games. You can only have "direct play'" if playing against a team that allows space. You can't be direct or quicker if a team is sat deep, packing the defence, it is not rugby league.

People talk of tempo and breaking quickly as though it's something we actively try to avoid. Why would we? We have players well suited to a quick counter, we have scored some very impressive counter attacking goals. Tempo and directness are more often than not dictated by your opposition. See the two Everton games the other week. Away, Everton came at us, attacked as it was a home cup tie, we scored a very fine attacking counter attacking goal. Box to box in less than 6 seconds, proving we are more than capable of tempo and directness. Everton at our place, they sat back nearly all night, you can't just run quickly at them, they are 10 international footballers determind to defend. Guile is needed, not pace. Yes Silva is off form, but how much more dangerous did we look when De Bruyne was replaced by Silva that night?
It's not like we are incapable of quick play, even in that Everton game, the last five minutes when they put pressure on and tried to nick it, we still hit them on the break, only for Sterling to be hauled down.


So what we need to ask, or as I see it anyway.

Do we play more teams who park the bus and look to hold out, offering virtually nothing going forwards for vast periods of the game or teams that come out and attack us? Let's be honest we all know the answer to that. And currently Silva is more suited in that role. As I see it, it's horses for courses and we play more games where Silva's abilities are essential and De Bruyne's not so much.

De Bruyne as I say has some fantastic qualities and if we were playing Barcelona or Bayern, games where we won't controle possession, where teams will pour forwards on us, I'd look to utilise his skill set, create chances from nothing by moving the ball very quickly. Ya Ya despite his age obviously catching up with him is still excellent at turning defence into attack in one swift pass. For me our best counter attacking side would contain Delph, Fernandinho and De Bruyne centrally, Navas and Sterling out wide and Aguero up top.

As I see it, De Bruyne's main fault, one Mourinho obviously didn't care for and as I said earlier. He relinquishes possession too easy and as of yet doesn't put a foot In when necessary. This is understandable, he young and still fairly inexperienced. But something that leaves us out numbered and out of shape.
Silva and Nasri have been and are masters of ball retention, especially with Toure and it's no surprise that if you relinquish possession in advanced positions a midfield will often be caught out. Hence our defending at times.

Silva is bound to have better match management the kid has been in the league for years, near 100 caps for Spain.

I believe that De Bruyne and Sterling will both benefit greatly from Pep, but for me currently under this manager with these players they lose the ball a little too cheaply, will they improve? Almost certainly. You can already see the way Sterling is emulating Silva's ability to put body between ball and man, Sterling is just unfortunate that is would take Mike Tyson biting his ear off for him to be awarded a free kick.

 

[schfc6]

Mate, he put that Silveresque thr- ball assist to Aguero from the middle. Also when attacked Navas's cross for his goal from the middle. The static notion of 'who' was playing '#10' by the OP is purposeful.

Sure technically, he was the 'leftmid' at that point, but he and Silva interchanged seamlessly and he played Narrower, just like all our wide mids do bar Navas.

DeBryune is a playmaker. He makes plays! Assists, creates chances for teammates. He is a good shooter who score goals, and is generally disruptive, with his movements and drive.

Yes, but when he plays, he gives the ball away far too easily, thus totally exposing our midfield. It's about balance, and I'm afraid there has been zero evidence of any balance in a City line up he's started in. However the best we looked without question is in games where he's been left out. That however you see things in undeniable.
Even De Bruyne's biggest fans will tell you he can be inconsistent, if you have an inconsistent play maker, surely by all logic you'll have inconsistent play???

 

[BillyShears]

It's not based on his passing stats over two months, it's based on his general play whilst at City compared to Silva's years of outstanding and obvious attributes.
Are there times when playing with De Bruyne centrally will trump Silva? Yes, most certainly. Unfortunately not in many PL games. You can only have "direct play'" if playing against a team that allows space. You can't be direct or quicker if a team is sat deep, packing the defence, it is not rugby league.

So you're comparing two months versus five years. That's already disingenuous to begin with. You're also asking me to believe what your "eyes" tell you even though the stats don't actually back that up. You can't look at KDB's performance in isolation over a two month period when he's new to the team and then ask me to ignore Silva's contribution during that period on the basis that he was great last season or the season before. Football is progressive in that sense, rather than regressive. Silva needs to be better with more competition in the side, not worse, which is what he has been since KDB came into the side.

People talk of tempo and breaking quickly as though it's something we actively try to avoid. Why would we? We have players well suited to a quick counter, we have scored some very impressive counter attacking goals. Tempo and directness are more often than not dictated by your opposition. See the two Everton games the other week. Away, Everton came at us, attacked as it was a home cup tie, we scored a very fine attacking counter attacking goal. Box to box in less than 6 seconds, proving we are more than capable of tempo and directness. Everton at our place, they sat back nearly all night, you can't just run quickly at them, they are 10 international footballers determind to defend. Guile is needed, not pace. Yes Silva is off form, but how much more dangerous did we look when De Bruyne was replaced by Silva that night?
It's not like we are incapable of quick play, even in that Everton game, the last five minutes when they put pressure on and tried to nick it, we still hit them on the break, only for Sterling to be hauled down.


So what we need to ask, or as I see it anyway.

Do we play more teams who park the bus and look to hold out, offering virtually nothing going forwards for vast periods of the game or teams that come out and attack us? Let's be honest we all know the answer to that. And currently Silva is more suited in that role. As I see it, it's horses for courses and we play more games where Silva's abilities are essential and De Bruyne's not so much.

De Bruyne as I say has some fantastic qualities and if we were playing Barcelona or Bayern, games where we won't controle possession, where teams will pour forwards on us, I'd look to utilise his skill set, create chances from nothing by moving the ball very quickly. Ya Ya despite his age obviously catching up with him is still excellent at turning defence into attack in one swift pass. For me our best counter attacking side would contain Delph, Fernandinho and De Bruyne centrally, Navas and Sterling out wide and Aguero up top.

As I see it, De Bruyne's main fault, one Mourinho obviously didn't care for and as I said earlier. He relinquishes possession too easy and as of yet doesn't put a foot In when necessary. This is understandable, he young and still fairly inexperienced. But something that leaves us out numbered and out of shape.
Silva and Nasri have been and are masters of ball retention, especially with Toure and it's no surprise that if you relinquish possession in advanced positions a midfield will often be caught out. Hence our defending at times.

Silva is bound to have better match management the kid has been in the league for years, near 100 caps for Spain.

I believe that De Bruyne and Sterling will both benefit greatly from Pep, but for me currently under this manager with these players they lose the ball a little too cheaply, will they improve? Almost certainly. You can already see the way Sterling is emulating Silva's ability to put body between ball and man, Sterling is just unfortunate that is would take Mike Tyson biting his ear off for him to be awarded a free kick.

The rest of that analysis from what I can tell, is basically a rehash of the idea that KDB is only a counter attacking player and he loses the ball too much. Well, I'm sorry but firstly, I don't agree that KDB is only a counter attacking player. Absolutely he gives the ball away too much at present but the majority of that is due to him trying passes which others simply wouldn't attempt. Again to go back to last season, people were desperate to see Nasri out of the side because he always went for the safe option. Now we have somebody who doesn't and you're arguing that that isn't right for us either. I don't agree.

As an aside, I could give less of a fuck what Mourinho thought of De Bruyne. ;)

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Once you get past the emotional stuff from the kids, the thing which seems to be at the root of people's concerns about KDB seem to be that he is a player that can only play on the counter attack. For me I think that's just not true because his best performances and his most consistent contributions have come at home rather than away. We have more parked buses at the Etihad than we do on our away travels.

The key for me is simply consistency of position and consistency of selection. Moving Silva/KDB (and to a lesser extent Sterling) around different positions is turning their versatility as a virtue into a hinderance.

That's what I think is our biggest current problem. We have three attacking midfielders who can play in any of the three attacking midfield positions, and they are getting shunted around all the time to squeeze the likes of Navas, Yaya and Ileanacho into their respective positions.

 

[BillyShears]

Yes, but when he plays, he gives the ball away far too easily, thus totally exposing our midfield. It's about balance, and I'm afraid there has been zero evidence of any balance in a City line up he's started in. However the best we looked without question is in games where he's been left out. That however you see things in undeniable.
Even De Bruyne's biggest fans will tell you he can be inconsistent, if you have an inconsistent play maker, surely by all logic you'll have inconsistent play???

Silva has given the ball away as much as KDB in the last month. Their pass completion stats are incredibly similar across the whole season. If you were to take their best and worst performances you'd see almost identical passing stats.

 

[mad zab]

Playmakers dictate play, usually from the middle. You're quite right that Silva over the years has started wide and drifted inside.

I appreciate De Bruyne often played centrally for Wolfsburg and did brilliantly. The difference being Wolfsburg were a top 6 side, teams didn't park the bus against them. Most of De Bruyne's good work was exploiting space in behind teams, either hitting an early, direct ball or running in to the space behind.

The difference playing for City is we're the best team in the league. Most teams park the bus, sit back and leave no space in behind. That negates a lot of De Bruyne's game. It requires more acute technique, intelligence and subtlety. De Bruyne is currently not at or anywhere near Silva's league on those things.

De Bruyne has tried to play as a playmaker for us in the first 25 minutes against Newcastle, and in the 7 weeks Silva was out. He was dreadful trying to play that role, it's not his game.

Playing as a playmaker for a top 6 Bubdesliga side who play on the counter is quite different from being a playmaker for the best team in the Premier League who dominate possession. By the same token, Silva wouldn't have been suited in doing the job De Bruyne did for Wolfsburg, he's got a different set of skills.

I've seen De Bruyne's biggest fan on here say "well he's got the best goals and assists record, and the stats are the most important thing". Unfortunately if you look at the game only through those parameters you don't really understand the game, and probably never will.

For me the most important thing is for the team to play well. If they do, results will come. The team has played best without De Bruyne in the side. Maybe it's coincidence, or maybe he's upset the balance of the side? For those who struggle with intricacies of football and only understand stats, check the stats from the first 5 games of the season before De Bruyne signed.

I didn't mention Silva playing from a wide position, someone else did.

Also, I look at game to give my judgement, not the stats. What the goals and assists do show is that he is more creative at home than away at the moment. Therefore your argument about packed defences negating his game doesn't really hold up to scrutiny.

Your argument is that he is not a playmaker. Well I beg to differ, so we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[birchwoodgingerste]

Silva has given the ball away as much as KDB in the last month. Their pass completion stats are incredibly similar across the whole season. If you were to take their best and worst performances you'd see almost identical passing stats.

Although one critical stat out of yaya , silva , and Kdb is Kdb and yaya score goals.silva has avaraged about 6 goals a season Kdb is past that already.personally I'd drop yaya away from home.

 

[KDBestplayerintheworld]

Even De Bruyne's biggest fans will tell you he can be inconsistent, if you have an inconsistent play maker, surely by all logic you'll have inconsistent play???

True! And please accept my username as proof that I am a big KDB fan ;-)

This is why I'm still not convinced that playmaker is De Bruyne's best position.
The same exercise is held in the Belgian NT. He used to play down the right flank, but now Wilmots has chosen him to be the playmaker in a central role just behind the striker ...
I think there's things to say for both positions, but all in all I still prefer him as right winger. His crosses, both high and low, are still his biggest weapon for me. He can also do massive damage on that right flank in a quick counter attack, he's scored a couple of goals like that for Belgium.
He can be a good playmaker too but he needs to be at his best then, and you never now up front with him if he'll be sloppy or 100% focused. Occasional sloppiness is less harmful on the wing imo.

As to the remark that he wouldn't be effective when playing against teams who park the bus. Belgium plays those kind of teams all of the time and KDB has by far been our most productive and best player all round in any of the past campaigns.

 

[BillyShears]

Although one critical stat out of yaya , silva , and Kdb is Kdb and yaya score goals.silva has avaraged about 6 goals a season Kdb is past that already.personally I'd drop yaya away from home.

I guess that there will come a point where the manager will have to make a decision about what's more important in terms of the characteristics that Silva brings to the side and the characteristics that De Bruyne brings. I'm not overly worried either way as to who is chosen as they're both top players.

 

[schfc6]

So you're comparing two months versus five years. That's already disingenuous to begin with. You're also asking me to believe what your "eyes" tell you even though the stats don't actually back that up. You can't look at KDB's performance in isolation over a two month period when he's new to the team and then ask me to ignore Silva's contribution during that period on the basis that he was great last season or the season before. Football is progressive in that sense, rather than regressive. Silva needs to be better with more competition in the side, not worse, which is what he has been since KDB came into the side.

Silva was utterly excellent at the start of the season, after Everton away Redknapp, Souness et Al were asking if there was any point having man of the matches in games where Silva played.

The fact remains, yourself and Dax are ignoring the painfully obvious, our best performances this season have come in the absence of De Bruyne.



The rest of that analysis from what I can tell, is basically a rehash of the idea that KDB is only a counter attacking player and he loses the ball too much. Well, I'm sorry but firstly, I don't agree that KDB is only a counter attacking player. Absolutely he gives the ball away too much at present but the majority of that is due to him trying passes which others simply wouldn't attempt. Again to go back to last season, people were desperate to see Nasri out of the side because he always went for the safe option. Now we have somebody who doesn't and you're arguing that that isn't right for us either. I don't agree.

As an aside, I could give less of a fuck what Mourinho thought of De Bruyne. ;)

The funny thing is, you do actually agree that De Bruyne is primarily a counter attacking player, you just don't understand why. A player who gives the ball away cheaply, looks to move the ball quickly and create with direct tempo and quick passing, You even referenced tempo as a reason he was brought in. That all screams 'counter attacking'. Every attribute you say he has, and I don't disagree suggest his attributes suit counter attacking high tempo, high risk play. This was not Mancini's way, certainly not Pellegrini's way and definately is not the Pep way.

Every player in our squad are comfortably with Silva, we looked unstoppable with Silva at the start of the season. De Bruyne is unquestionably inconsistent would it not make sense to play to our strengths?

As for Nasri, this site is full of idiots whom can't see the wood for the trees, Nasri has been integral and trusted by both Mancini and Pellegrini, my bet Pep will trust him too.