Kevin De Bruyne 2016/17

[jimmygrimblesboots]

Have you watched the West Ham game since it happened? I ask this because I've come to realize the difference BTW my knowledge and that of many us that I've watched the games multiple times under calm conditions while many are relying on the one time memory.

If you haven't, please do. You see why the above bolded wouldn't be correct.

Yes , watched the game live with about 20 odd blues , and also recorded the full match ,so your "one time memory" is yet again incorrect , most of us were very surprised that Delph was substituted , and yet you statement "my knowledge and that of many of us " just smacks of arrogance . Now i will give you a bit of friendly advice , stop hanging on my every word/post , and jog on.

 

[Dax777]

Yes , watched the game live with about 20 odd blues , and also recorded the full match ,so your "one time memory" is yet again incorrect , most of us were very surprised that Delph was substituted , and yet you statement "my knowledge and that of many of us " just smacks of arrogance . Now i will give you a bit of friendly advice , stop hanging on my every word/post , and jog on.

Cool.

 

[Dax777]

I think you're struggling here and desperately grasping and straws. I'll make it as simple as I can for you.

1. I didn't backtrack from saying De Bruyne was diabolocal in the first 25 minutes. I said it during the game, in the stadium, and I've not deviated from that path.

You tried to show me his pass completion stats as if it was some kind of proof that he excelled. I tried to explain to you, it was his movement off the ball that was diabolical. His hiding behind players, his not showing feet, him not creating angles and giving options to our deeper lying players.

These things are essential in a playmaking role, which was his job in the first 25 minutes, and he was lousy at it.

2. My memory is tip top thanks mate. As I explained to you, his movement off the ball, his making himself available was appalling. You probably wouldn't know that if you weren't at the game, which you clearly weren't. I've watched David Silva and Nasri for 5 years and they always demand the ball, constantly look for pockets of space to recieve the ball to feet, to create an outlet for the man on the ball. De Bruyne didn't do that at all in that first 25 minutes, and it played a huge contributing factor in us getting dicked by Newcastle for 25 minutes who I think were bottom of the league at the time.

Try and argue with me that De Bruyne was great in that first 25 minutes. Tell me that the team was great. Show me 100 YouTube clips, nothing at all you say or do will ever change my mind.

I was at the game, I was fuming for 25 minutes. Everyone around me was fuming. It's not a hazy memory, it's clear as day. I talked about De Bruyne's ineptness that day at the time with my mate I was sat next to. I screamed at Pellegrini to switch De Bruyne and Silva. He did so after 25 minutes and it completely changed the game.

Seriously, the Newcastle game is not a subject you can argue with me about, you weren't there and you're not qualified to even discuss it with me.

3. Mate, I'm not sure why you seem so intent on doubting my memory. It's a curious line you're going down in a last gasp attempt to try and salvage something from the argument. It's not working. It's the kind of defense Lionel Hutz in The Simpsons would come up with.

I'm sure I probably posted about that switch on 25 minutes in the hours after the game. Feel free to research it, I know you like doing that. I wasn't drinking, I wasn't smoking, there was no kind of head trauma, my recollection of the game was A1.

The change from Pellegrini to switch De Bruyne for Silva completely changed the game. Ask anyone who was there. We went from having a player playing at CAM, 10, acting as the playmaker in De Bruyne who didn't do his job very well and the team suffered for it. We were a shambles, all over the place, getting dicked by Newcastle. He switched De Bruyne and Silva and we scored 6 goals. The fact you can't see a correlation there is just absolutely baffling and alarming.

We could argue for 100 years and my position wouldn't change 1 inch so you're better directing your energies elsewhere.

I'm not trying to convince you. That would be silly. If nothing else your ego wouldn't let it happen.

I'm simply pointing out to others who read this that you are probably lying to make a point.

Hence why I posted the game link. It's not for you. It is for everyone else. Objective evidence doesn't require your or my opinion. It requires neither of our input.

The neutral observer can watch and determine if they'd consider that a 'diabolical' performance by DeBryune.

 

[Shaelumstash]

I'm not trying to convince you. That would be silly. If nothing else your ego wouldn't let it happen.

I'm simply pointing out to others who read this that you are probably lying to make a point.

Hence why I posted the game link. It's not for you. It is for everyone else. Objective evidence doesn't require your or my opinion. It requires neither of our input.

The neutral observer can watch and determine if they'd consider that a 'diabolical' performance by DeBryune.

Your opinion is that you can watch a Youtube video 3 months later and look at some Opta pass completion stats and have as good an analysis as someone who was at the game and could see all of the movement off the ball. You're wrong, and that's why you've got a fundamental misunderstanding of the game.

 

[KDBestplayerintheworld]

As for Navas, in my humble opinion he is very under rated by the fans. He is a player clearly trusted by the rest of the squad. If Dave, Kev, Zaba and Ya Ya trust him, then I do too.

While I have sympathy for Navas and by no means want to state that he's a "bad player" (I don't think there are bad players in the Premier League), I think it's hard to see past the facts that his stats are too underwhelming for an attacking player (0 PL goals over the past two seasons and only a handful of assists) and the qualiy of his crosses are just too poor.

What he does provide is pace and width, and maybe that allows other players to score and assist more than they otherwise would, but that's hard to measure. I don't know if anyone has stats of team goals per match scored with or without Navas?
Anyway, I simply think it's not enough for a team like City who have the ambition to compete with the likes of Barcelona & Bayern Munich.

I do understand the comment that you just want to make the most out of this season, but imo Navas in for De Bruyne won't win City more points, quite the contrary, even if De Bruyne has a lot to improve in terms of team connection.

 

[KDBestplayerintheworld]

I'm not sure if you saw our first 5 games this season before De Bruyne signed, but the team was functioning at an incredibly high level. We won 5 games on the trot, and didn't concede a goal. In contrast, we haven't won 2 games on the trot since October, and De Bruyne has been an ever present.

Yes I did see the first 5 games, and yes they probably were the best 5 games City have played all season, but I refuse to put the blame for City's inconsistency since on De Bruyne (alone). There are numerous very important factors to take into account such as key players injured, changing tactics (both for De Bruyne personally - sometimes on the wing sometimes in a central role - as for the team (one striker vs two strikers, one or two holding midfielders), poor or inconsistent form from other key players (Touré as the prime example), and so on. And yet in that climate De Bruyne managed 21 direct goal contributions. Yes, the stats don't tell the whole story, and once again I agree there's a lot of work to be done for him in terms of consistency, focus and team connection, but I do think he's done and doing enough to have the advantage over Navas, who yes is always full of good intent but simply doesn't deliver enough quality for my liking.

 

[PragueBlue]

I do understand the comment that you just want to make the most out of this season, but imo Navas in for De Bruyne won't win City more points, quite the contrary, even if De Bruyne has a lot to improve in terms of team connection.

I'm not sure about that. We have a better points per game record this season when Navas plays than when KDB plays. That's not to say both can't play together but I think we function better as a team with Navas and Sterling out wide at the moment. This gives the central player (and the forward) more space to play in. For me the question is whether to use Silva or KDB to play that central role. Personally I'd go with Silva this evening to see if he can get back to his form at the start of the season. It would give KDB the rest that he needs and if it isn't working out he can come on from the bench to liven things up.

 

[KDBestplayerintheworld]

Dude you are not very good at this. Here is what you said:


My response was meant to expose 2 of many factual inaccuracies in the above statement. I.E. the ones relevant to DeBryune.

1. That DeBryune was 'diabolical' in the first 25 minutes ( this is why I list DeBryune's attributes and actions in the first 25 minutes.)

2. You supported your claim that of him being 'diabolical' by pointing out the coach had to switch him out of the position for Silva. (I then chronicle Silva's 25 minutes to show that it was more likely his poor defensive suppot play on the wing nessitated the switch and not DeBryune's 'diabolical' play at CAM).
Thus, dicrediting your claim and its support argument that DeBryune was 'diabolical' and the coach switched him because of it.

I ignore other innacuracies like ' worst game since takeover' I reckon you were just being hyperbolic. But either way it wasn't particularly relevant to this thread.


As for the rest:


Again, this was not the argument, let's remember why you made the initial claim I debunked.

You were arguing with someoneelse that DeBryune has never played well at 'playmaker' position. And were trying to show he was terrible at it against Newcastle. Hence your 'diabolical' and 'so much so' claims.
As it turns out neither claim is true, he wasn't 'diabolical' nor was he moved coz of it.

As for the score when he was there vs when he wasn't playing there as proof Silva played better at CAM, its a silly comparison and an argument you'd never find me in.

There are multiple issues there. And I don't think you are rigorous enough to get into them. You strike me as more of a generalities guy. Rather than strict and fact specific.



I see you have backtracked a bit now, you now only think the 'team' was 'diabolical.' This is good.

But let me do you one better than asking someone who was there: Here is a link to the first 25 minutes and more. Take some time and watch, stop relying on faulty memories.
http://www.fullmatchesandshows.com/...-vs-newcastle-united-highlights-full-match/#7

You can thank me later.

You are very good at this, it must be said.

 

[mad zab]

Thanks for that, I didn't realise I was an arse for resenting being spoken down to by a clown.
As for your point? I am confused? Are you comparing Silva with centre halves? Are you suggesting the best attacking midfielder City have ever had, plays it safe? Am I comparing De Bruyne to De Jong? No I'm comparing him to players of his ilk.
By your own admission De Bruyne takes too many risks with the ball to be our play maker.

Again, I'm argueing with someone who doesn't understand their own arguement. You freely admit that De Bruyne takes risks, relinquishes play too cheaply yet are advocating him as a playmaker.

Your last line sums you up perfectly. Who cares how often the player responsible for dictating the gives it away. Oh that's right, the manager and his team mates. One thing is for fucking sure, we certainly don't need to encourage 8 additional counter attacks every game.

Perhaps you and Bully sorry Billy think City would be best offering the opposition even more chances to attack. The even more interesting thing about Billy's stats, despite playing 500 minutes more, giving the ball away far more often, Silva is one assist behind.

We'll have to end it here, as you also appear to questioning David Silva's 'end product'? As I say, I'll leave it there, anyone questioning Silva's end product is either mentally unwell or a novice to the game.

No you idiot, I am saying that pass completion (ball retention) can easily be misconstrued. If a defender takes no risks and just ensures he gives it to a midfielder or full back, then his pass completion stats will be higher than most attacking players.

I don't always agree with Billy, but he doesn't come across has a clown to me, unlike you.

You don't seem to realise there are many different sort of play makers.

I haven't questioned Silva's end product. Once again your trying to makes things up to support your stupid theories.

Now please don't bother quoting me again.

 

[OB1]

No you idiot, I am saying that pass completion (ball retention) can easily be misconstrued. If a defender takes no risks and just ensures he gives it to a midfielder or full back, then his pass completion stats will be higher than most attacking players.

I don't always agree with Billy, but he doesn't come across has a clown to me, unlike you.

You don't seem to realise there are many different sort of play makers.

I haven't questioned Silva's end product. Once again your trying to makes things up to support your stupid theories.

Now please don't bother quoting me again.

TBH, I think this whole debate has got a bit silly.

I am not aware of a strict definition of a play-maker but I haven't time to research that. The most important player in the side when it comes to ball retention at City has been Yaya: all the play tends to go through him but maybe that makes him a link man rather than a play-maker. Frankly, who gives a ####. I am sure that KDB could play AMC successfully for City and adapt his game if need be but wherever he plays, he needs to cut out the poor sloppy passes that a re not a function of a lack of technical ability: he was making too many of these and they have dragged his completion stats down. I do think he has made less of them recently so I hope that is a trend. His completion stats will always be lower than a Yaya because of the number of creative balls he attempts but that is not a problem if he is making lots of chances, and he is. I must say though that his completion stats for crosses are very low, well below average for the league, but that may not be soley down to him: I don't think the team does a good enough job of getting onto crosses.