Lancashire CCC

[Shands]

you could pick a really good team of young local players Lancashire have let go to other counties over recent years (most of whom played in the Lancashire League as kids)...........

M. Brown (Sur)
J. Simpson wk (Mid)
V. Tripathi (Nor)
S. Mullaney (Not)
D. Brown (Gla)
C.Schofield (Sur)
J. Clare (Der)
K. Barker (War)
S. Kirby (Glo)
L. Daggett (Nor)

To be fair to the decision makers at Lancs you could argue that in most cases it was the right choice to let these players move on. Clare, D Brown and Tripathi for example are struggling to get a start for Division 2 counties so were unlikely to force their way through at Lancs. I also accept that on occasion a mistake will be made and a player will come back to haunt us (i.e Mullaney), that's just life.

My gripe is that currently we have a 2ndxi full of players in their mid twenties -Shanker, Montogomery, Cross, Newby, Hogg, etc. This season our batting in the CC in particular has been poor (Horton, Moore, Smith and Chilton all average under 30) and yet the line up has remained virtually unchanged. That says to me that the coach doesn't believe that the players in the two's are good enough, in which case why are we retaining them? Wouldn't we be better trying to give experience to promising teenagers instead? On the flip side if these players in the 2's are good enough, where is the incentive for them to perform if the 1st team is a closed shop?

Last year we signed Lungley on loan and this year we've brought in the terrible Powell, again that indicates that Moores doesn't consider Cheetham or Montogmery good enough so why keep them on the staff? It doesn't add up.

I look around the county scene and see lots of other counties producing and encouraging very promising young players. Lancs have more resources to call on than most, so somewhere along the line something isn't right.

 

[law74]

Whats the Lancashire League scene like now, cause strong clubs provide strong young players to the counties, but if the clubs are more concerned about paying oversceas professionals to fill their bars on matchday than in providing support and oppertunities at a higher level for their young players then the flow of good natural talent dries up.

My own club side took the decision two seasons ago to give the young players every chance and this season we have had a 15 year old opening the bowling and started the season with another 15 year old batting at 3.
It may have cost us a chance of promotion this year, but these two players in particular have came on in leaps and bounds, and we will be a stroger club next year for their experience.
(I know that it is a far cry in standards from Lanky League, but imho the theory holds good (possibly with 17 year olds instead of 15) but give the youth a chance.

 

[niall_mcfc]

I agree that Moores has done a bad job. I know cricket teams work on a salary cap depending on success but the players we have brought in over the past few years is shocking.

Chilton imo has never been a good batsmen and is nowhere near good enough to play at 4 for a top divsion 1 side.

It shows how much we are struggling for players when Chapple has to still take the new ball and bowl around 10 over spells. He just cant do it anymore because hes too old but he is still a top bowler. Mahmood has not improved since he burst on the scene 6 or 7 years ago, Newby always seems to be injured, Hogg just isnt good enough, we have even had to go and give Montgomery a try who is a football by trade. As far Powell he should never wear the red rose again because he is an awful excuse of a cricketer.

The only player that has shown something since joining Lancs is Moore but hes been inconsistent and is now injured. I think once Flintoff is back then the team will be spurred on by him and they might improve their performance. Horton is a good opening batsmen, Croft has come on a lot in the past few years, Tom Smith is a very good allrounder, Parry looks a good prospect and will replace Keedy and hopefully Kerrigan can keep improving.

We lack class in the wicket keeper department but id rather we strengthened the batting and bowling.

 

[Shands]

I agree that it's not all doom and gloom. If this is our low ebb it could be a lot worse. Last weeks Durham defeat was the first CC loss in 20 or 21 games and the first at the real OT for 5 years, plus we did well enough in the T20's.

Both Horton and Moore should be good enough as top order players but need to quickly rediscover form and consistency. Brown looks to have a lot of talent but needs to be given a chance and Croft started the season brilliantly but has dropped off a bit of late.

Losing Chapple will be a big loss, but in time we may end up with Anderson back as a regular and though Mahmood isn't a test bowler he has a decent county record. Parry and Kerrigan are doing well so the nucleus of a side is there.

Hampshire in the pro 40 last night had 7 players under 21. One of them was a debutant but the other 6 have played a number of games in all forms of cricket so their inclusion was no token gesture. Having a group of young hungry players pushing the established pro's has got to be positive and It's something Lancs could do with thinking about.

 

[m27]

I agree that it's not all doom and gloom. If this is our low ebb it could be a lot worse. Last weeks Durham defeat was the first CC loss in 20 or 21 games and the first at the real OT for 5 years, plus we did well enough in the T20's.

Both Horton and Moore should be good enough as top order players but need to quickly rediscover form and consistency. Brown looks to have a lot of talent but needs to be given a chance and Croft started the season brilliantly but has dropped off a bit of late.

Losing Chapple will be a big loss, but in time we may end up with Anderson back as a regular and though Mahmood isn't a test bowler he has a decent county record. Parry and Kerrigan are doing well so the nucleus of a side is there.

Hampshire in the pro 40 last night had 7 players under 21. One of them was a debutant but the other 6 have played a number of games in all forms of cricket so their inclusion was no token gesture. Having a group of young hungry players pushing the established pro's has got to be positive and It's something Lancs could do with thinking about.

You and I have discussed this before mate but from first-hand experience, Lancashire have never backed their local lads en-masse and always seem to adopt a "grass is greener" approach and go for the big names or lads in their twenties from other Counties.

When Lancs told me I didn't have a future there Durham were very interested but it all fell through because their board wanted someone local instead. Not necessarily because they were better than me but because that their policy was to sign local lads. Fair enough. My mate was released by Lancs a couple of seasons later and the same thing happened to him at Glamorgan. He never found another County despite being good enough.

Lancs signed a lad called Tim Roberts about 7 years ago and this is a prime example of what Lancs' recruitment policy is like. Tim was a great lad from te midlands but Northants weren't interested in him anymore and he was just a very good batsman, but no better than countless lads in their early twenties who had come through the Lancs Schools system and been successful. He left after a handful of first class games without really troubling the scorers.

Don't even get me started on Joe Scuderi!!

I've also been told that, and this is a big ALLEGEDLY, the contracts being offered to the established local lads are far less than they have been offered elsewhere, so the local lads they have which are worth keping could be offskis anyway!!

Cross should have left when Sutton was (wrongly) signed because they are ruining his career as a batsman/wicketkeeper. Another great example of Lancs not backing a local lad, despite his rawness, and going for a bloke on a big salary who was far from light years ahead of Cross at the time.

 

[Ticket For Schalke]

Didnt help losing Du plessis.

 

[Corky]

Whats the Lancashire League scene like now, cause strong clubs provide strong young players to the counties, but if the clubs are more concerned about paying oversceas professionals to fill their bars on matchday than in providing support and oppertunities at a higher level for their young players then the flow of good natural talent dries up.

My own club side took the decision two seasons ago to give the young players every chance and this season we have had a 15 year old opening the bowling and started the season with another 15 year old batting at 3.
It may have cost us a chance of promotion this year, but these two players in particular have came on in leaps and bounds, and we will be a stroger club next year for their experience.
(I know that it is a far cry in standards from Lanky League, but imho the theory holds good (possibly with 17 year olds instead of 15) but give the youth a chance.

The various leagues has lesser quality pros than seen in 80s and 90s to to some extent 00s. Ian Austin for Baxendon is still the best all round player in one league.

Each club can only have one pro at any one time so it never damaged the development of young players too much, and probably helped them having a quality player there. The pros were often sponsored by a main donator who would get a plaque up in the club house.

Young players are coming through from these leagues and been given a chance, but most have an association with Lancashire from an early age.

Keith Barker gave up football and was playing club cricket in Lancashire when Bumble spotted him and recommended him to Warwickshire. He had some of the best t20 figures last year.

Lancashire just need 3 quality batsmen, Moore was a decent signing but got injured, and we needed two more like him or better.

 

[niall_mcfc]

Didnt help losing Du plessis.

Your right with that mate, he was just finding some form at the end of last season but because of this kolpack rule we cant have him back. I dont know if we could of signed him as an overseas because id rather have him in the team than Prince or Mccullum. Shiv has done well for us in the games hes played but why on earth did he not play in the twenty20 quarter final? Moores is a grade a wanker and they need to get rid imo, he wants 3 years to get it sorted but thats too long because we are now in danger of getting relegated if we carry on<br /><br />-- Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:50 pm --<br /><br />88-4 already, shiv gone for 1st ball duck and chilton failed again as did openers. Down to croft, cross and sutton now

 

[Shands]

I agree that it's not all doom and gloom. If this is our low ebb it could be a lot worse. Last weeks Durham defeat was the first CC loss in 20 or 21 games and the first at the real OT for 5 years, plus we did well enough in the T20's.

Both Horton and Moore should be good enough as top order players but need to quickly rediscover form and consistency. Brown looks to have a lot of talent but needs to be given a chance and Croft started the season brilliantly but has dropped off a bit of late.

Losing Chapple will be a big loss, but in time we may end up with Anderson back as a regular and though Mahmood isn't a test bowler he has a decent county record. Parry and Kerrigan are doing well so the nucleus of a side is there.

Hampshire in the pro 40 last night had 7 players under 21. One of them was a debutant but the other 6 have played a number of games in all forms of cricket so their inclusion was no token gesture. Having a group of young hungry players pushing the established pro's has got to be positive and It's something Lancs could do with thinking about.

You and I have discussed this before mate but from first-hand experience, Lancashire have never backed their local lads en-masse and always seem to adopt a "grass is greener" approach and go for the big names or lads in their twenties from other Counties.

When Lancs told me I didn't have a future there Durham were very interested but it all fell through because their board wanted someone local instead. Not necessarily because they were better than me but because that their policy was to sign local lads. Fair enough. My mate was released by Lancs a couple of seasons later and the same thing happened to him at Glamorgan. He never found another County despite being good enough.

Lancs signed a lad called Tim Roberts about 7 years ago and this is a prime example of what Lancs' recruitment policy is like. Tim was a great lad from te midlands but Northants weren't interested in him anymore and he was just a very good batsman, but no better than countless lads in their early twenties who had come through the Lancs Schools system and been successful. He left after a handful of first class games without really troubling the scorers.

Don't even get me started on Joe Scuderi!!

I've also been told that, and this is a big ALLEGEDLY, the contracts being offered to the established local lads are far less than they have been offered elsewhere, so the local lads they have which are worth keping could be offskis anyway!!

Cross should have left when Sutton was (wrongly) signed because they are ruining his career as a batsman/wicketkeeper. Another great example of Lancs not backing a local lad, despite his rawness, and going for a bloke on a big salary who was far from light years ahead of Cross at the time.

I'd forgotten all about Tim Roberts, wasn't he recruited around the same time as Ryan Driver and Alec Swann? Two further examples of exactly the point you've made.

Not sure I agree about Du Plessis. He was handy in one day cricket but his 4 day record was pretty poor despite plenty of opportunities. Again he took up a spot in the side for 2 years that could have been used to develop Cross or Brown.

 

[m27]

You and I have discussed this before mate but from first-hand experience, Lancashire have never backed their local lads en-masse and always seem to adopt a "grass is greener" approach and go for the big names or lads in their twenties from other Counties.

When Lancs told me I didn't have a future there Durham were very interested but it all fell through because their board wanted someone local instead. Not necessarily because they were better than me but because that their policy was to sign local lads. Fair enough. My mate was released by Lancs a couple of seasons later and the same thing happened to him at Glamorgan. He never found another County despite being good enough.

Lancs signed a lad called Tim Roberts about 7 years ago and this is a prime example of what Lancs' recruitment policy is like. Tim was a great lad from te midlands but Northants weren't interested in him anymore and he was just a very good batsman, but no better than countless lads in their early twenties who had come through the Lancs Schools system and been successful. He left after a handful of first class games without really troubling the scorers.

Don't even get me started on Joe Scuderi!!

I've also been told that, and this is a big ALLEGEDLY, the contracts being offered to the established local lads are far less than they have been offered elsewhere, so the local lads they have which are worth keping could be offskis anyway!!

Cross should have left when Sutton was (wrongly) signed because they are ruining his career as a batsman/wicketkeeper. Another great example of Lancs not backing a local lad, despite his rawness, and going for a bloke on a big salary who was far from light years ahead of Cross at the time.

I'd forgotten all about Tim Roberts, wasn't he recruited around the same time as Ryan Driver and Alec Swann? Two further examples of exactly the point you've made.

Not sure I agree about Du Plessis. He was handy in one day cricket but his 4 day record was pretty poor despite plenty of opportunities. Again he took up a spot in the side for 2 years that could have been used to develop Cross or Brown.

Roberts came in about that time Shands you're right, and I also agree with you about Faf as well.

Absolutely wonderful fielder though. If there's anyone better in the world I've not seen him yet.