Last Night Of The Proms

denislawsbackheel

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It’s more taking pride in your community and country I was getting at but I’ll give you an answer to your question anyway...

I am proud of what the country and people from the country have achieved and the sacrifices laid out to do so.

Apart from the endless list of inventions that have made the world better, the industrial revolution, standing up to ethno-nationalism during WW2, there’s the progressive rights and freedoms people have had, parliament being a light of democracy when large parts of the world lived in dictatorships, magna Carta, right to be tried by your peers etc.

The UK often takes the first steps regarding these issues and others follow.

I’m proud of people like Shakespeare, Turing, Churchill, Attlee, Nelson etc.

I am proud that we’re one of the most tolerant countries in the world and accept people from all backgrounds, who mostly live and enjoy their own freedoms here.

All these people came from or lived on the same island as me and lived in communities similar to mine and it’s good to look at their achievements and feel a sense of our community did this.

Sure we’ve been the bad guys at times but we haven’t been for a long time and the UK is a force for good in the world generally speaking.

And whenever we’ve been needed in the past, usually when a dictator from France or Germany fancies a pop at taking over Europe, we’ve been found to stand up and be counted.

The UK is a great country with great people.
Not been bad guys for a long time.
How long?
In the thirties we were unfeeling bastards.
 

Ban-jani

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Not been bad guys for a long time.
How long?
In the thirties we were unfeeling bastards.
I was waiting for one of the resident leftists to bring up any bad thing Britain had done in the 20th century.

Youve even used the NewStatesman.

Let’s not forget elements of the left only wanted to engage Hitler when he turned on the Soviets.
 

Manc in London

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6 Aug 2008
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This debate, as well as the one re the statues of those involved in slave ownership, are dominated by extreme opinions. The idea of reasonableness, adult debate and listening to others is increasingly rare in this country. It would be good to see the Government look to facilitate a national debate about such issues. However, this is unlikely because the Government and the media appear to encourage extremist opinions on debates about national identity and pride. I find it all rather disappointing and poisonous, leading to some taking increasingly extremist views lacking any rationality about these and other issues.

Public sector organisations are not helping. They react with panic to social order movements and campaigns. They are so wary of annoying anyone and getting bad PR that they end up doing something that ends up offending most on both sides of the debate.
 

Ban-jani

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This debate, as well as the one re the statues of those involved in slave ownership, are dominated by extreme opinions. The idea of reasonableness, adult debate and listening to others is increasingly rare in this country. It would be good to see the Government look to facilitate a national debate about such issues. However, this is unlikely because the Government and the media appear to encourage extremist opinions on debates about national identity and pride. I find it all rather disappointing and poisonous, leading to some taking increasingly extremist views lacking any rationality about these and other issues.

Public sector organisations are not helping. They react with panic to social order movements and campaigns. They are so wary of annoying anyone and getting bad PR that they end up doing something that ends up offending most on both sides of the debate.
Any chance of debate was lost when the faction involved in removing these things decided it was just going to press ahead and do it without consulting anyone.

They never asked to have statues removed, they just did it, they didn’t ask the public what they wanted with THEIR licence fee, they tried to remove those songs and only stopped when their was a mass backlash.

The “right on” bunch couldn’t give a flying fuck about anyone else’s opinion, they try and cancel you.
 

Manc in London

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Any chance of debate was lost when the faction involved in removing these things decided it was just going to press ahead and do it without consulting anyone.

They never asked to have statues removed, they just did it, they didn’t ask the public what they wanted with THEIR licence fee, they tried to remove those songs and only stopped when their was a mass backlash.

The “right on” bunch couldn’t give a flying fuck about anyone else’s opinion, they try and cancel you.

Both sides of the debate are as bad as each other, in my opinion. Those at the opposite sides of the debate should not be making decisions without consideration or reacting in an irrational, and sometimes, offensive manner. It's become like football tribalism where rationality, understanding and compromise are seen as weak and the wrong way to go about it. Debates on issues in this country, particularly those that involve ethnity or race, are dead.
 

Ban-jani

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Both sides of the debate are as bad as each other, in my opinion. Those at the opposite sides of the debate should not be making decisions without consideration or reacting in an irrational, and sometimes, offensive manner. It's become like football tribalism where rationality, understanding and compromise are seen as weak and the wrong way to go about it. Debates on issues in this country, particularly those that involve ethnity or race, are dead.
The extremes on the side of the social justice lot are the aggressors these days and then the majority say wait a minute but then there’s the far right who escalate it with violence themselves.

The far right can piss off and basically give the social justice lot an excuse to carry on but there wouldn’t be this distraction or the pathetic argument over statues and memorials if radicalists didn’t want to tear them down for something that happened in another country 3000 miles away.

I’d dump this weird leftist faction with the far right on an inhabited island off Scotland and give each side a load of swords, get rid of the lot of them.
 

Mëtal Bikër

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It's the speed and voracity of the 'outrage' that perplexes me.

This isn't new information, it's not difficult to discover the darker elements of human history which every part of the earth has been guilty of at one time or another.

But when people start getting their facts from Facebook, Twitter or an Instagram post I suppose I shouldn't be all that surprised at these violent reactions.

People suddenly being angry about it NOW raises question about why those same people didn't act with such fervour years ago; it just reeks of opportunism in my eyes. Why does it take the shooting of civilians by law enforcement to suddenly prompt a narrative over a nation's historic slavery antics, ones which have no bearing on the culture of its modern society? Is this really new news to people?

"Slavery existed in all parts of the world..."

*non-plussed reactions*

"...and this nation also once participated in trading slaves"

*screeching rage!*
 
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Ifwecouldjust.......

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A part of me quite likes Rule Britannia as a song. If you study the words, it isn't actually a boast (which many/most people think) it's more like advice on naval policy.

It is however more a nostalgia fest than anything. We barely have a Navy any more due to cuts implemented by - oh, the Tories. (Not Corbyn.) We don't "rule the waves" and haven't for a very long time. We might as well sing about how our traction engines are the best in the world.

I don't really "get" how anyone thinks it's racist. The argument of the song is that the Navy keeps us safe from invaders. Which it did at the time. It's not about making others slaves. It does admittedly then go on to do a bit of imperialistic dreaming - which again is outdated, and (arguably) offensive to some.

Finally, not one person in 100 knows the full words.

There are things to "go to Jerusalem" about. This is not one of them.



Theres a bloke in Whitby who has a trawler fleet with more ships than the Royal Navy.
 

Ifwecouldjust.......

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I genuinely think you need help.

The Tories didn’t even initially mention it, it was the Sunday Times who ran the article.

I thought you may have taken a backseat on Tory conspiracies after your claims Johnson wasnt with his mrs were shown to be total bollocks, but no, here you go again.

At least this time you’re not peddling stories about his baby.


 

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