BillyShears said:BobKowalski said:BillyShears said:I would tend to agree with that assessment. Personally I thought the comment which sealed his fate in terms of going before the end of the season was the one which went along the lines of "in two weeks we'll find out, either you will look stupid or I will look stupid. I think I work for serious people.". In my opinion he knew he was going, and that comment will have infuriated the powers that be to the point where they brought forward his sacking as much to shut him up as to shut the speculation up regarding his position.
That Mancini knew is fairly obvious because we went into Cup Final day with the world and his wife either suspecting/fearing/hoping it was true. All Mancini did was put his foot on the accelerator and take some degree of control of the situation back. That the speculation broke on the eve of the Cup Final and then washed into the day itself was a PR nightmare of our own creation and there was no option left other than to sack Mancini once the deal with him had been thrashed out something which had to be done as quickly as possible.
With City firmly on the back foot there has been a small degree of spin to emphasis the fact that Mancini does indeed eat babies for lunch and no one likes him - which every one knew anyway. But irrespective of Mancini's ability to make grown men cry this was and always has been about who runs City and the business model and footballing philosophy going forward. The answer to both is Ferran and Txiki.
As for PB wanting articles on whether the sacking of Mancini was right how about we try and expand the issues rather than limiting it to the deed itself. Is it the right decision but poorly handled in terms of execution and timing? What does the sacking mean in terms of City's vision for the future now that we are in the era of a very powerful DoF with the manager position that of Head Coach? How will City handle the media narrative going forward and can we give Pellegrini the protection and space to do his job properly? Is the 'alpha' manager now officially dead given even Mourinho's options are limited to going back to Chelsea.
The sacking itself is just the conclusion of a particular phase in City's development and a successful conclusion at that. Much more interesting then people writing articles entitled 'Look At Me Ain't I Great' is the future and what it may bring and the impact Ferran and Txiki will have on the club. An impact that so far has been profound even if their timing and execution sucked donkey balls
You have a point in there somewhere.
Oh wait, actually. No you don't. That post is just shit. Revisionist. And shit. And also a little condescending and a lot sarcastic. But then someone's gotta carry on the blusterin'.
Anyway fuck it, Mancini got his just desserts. Your thoughts on Pellegrini are well documented if as shit as the post above. A little Tesco's reminder of what you think.
...turning to Pellegrini I guess one point going for him is that he plays nice with others and will do as he is told which from a DoF perspective is probably a managers best asset. I love Bobby Manc but he doesn't play well with others and politically this may cost him.
And if you get to Pellegrini's age and have won nothing of note I would be sceptical he has the necessary drive to ever do so. Getting an unfancied side to play above themselves is one thing but leading a top tier team from the front where you are expected to win the major prizes is a totally different ball game and his time at Real Madrid does not inspire confidence...
Its a bit like AVB at Chelsea and AVB at Spurs. Much as the media are prepping for a major Spurs wankathon (again) there is a world of difference in managing the two teams and a world of difference in the expectation placed on both teams. For Spurs finishing 3rd makes you manager of the year material. At Chelsea finishing 2nd makes you a fucking loser and winner of a P45
Mancini irrespective of what some people think has demonstrated through actual silverware that he can bring success at the top level. We can argue if that success is enough or whether other managers like Jose could bring even bigger success at this level - which is fair and legitimate debate - but not the Pellegrini's of this world. Some people can run a corner shop and others can run Tesco's. But don't think doing well at the former makes you even close to being competent at running the latter.
Glad you're warming to him though. Good to know you're a man with the courage of his convictions. Now if you'll excuse me i've got some bunting which needs taking down.
BillyShears said:BobKowalski said:BillyShears said:I would tend to agree with that assessment. Personally I thought the comment which sealed his fate in terms of going before the end of the season was the one which went along the lines of "in two weeks we'll find out, either you will look stupid or I will look stupid. I think I work for serious people.". In my opinion he knew he was going, and that comment will have infuriated the powers that be to the point where they brought forward his sacking as much to shut him up as to shut the speculation up regarding his position.
That Mancini knew is fairly obvious because we went into Cup Final day with the world and his wife either suspecting/fearing/hoping it was true. All Mancini did was put his foot on the accelerator and take some degree of control of the situation back. That the speculation broke on the eve of the Cup Final and then washed into the day itself was a PR nightmare of our own creation and there was no option left other than to sack Mancini once the deal with him had been thrashed out something which had to be done as quickly as possible.
With City firmly on the back foot there has been a small degree of spin to emphasis the fact that Mancini does indeed eat babies for lunch and no one likes him - which every one knew anyway. But irrespective of Mancini's ability to make grown men cry this was and always has been about who runs City and the business model and footballing philosophy going forward. The answer to both is Ferran and Txiki.
As for PB wanting articles on whether the sacking of Mancini was right how about we try and expand the issues rather than limiting it to the deed itself. Is it the right decision but poorly handled in terms of execution and timing? What does the sacking mean in terms of City's vision for the future now that we are in the era of a very powerful DoF with the manager position that of Head Coach? How will City handle the media narrative going forward and can we give Pellegrini the protection and space to do his job properly? Is the 'alpha' manager now officially dead given even Mourinho's options are limited to going back to Chelsea.
The sacking itself is just the conclusion of a particular phase in City's development and a successful conclusion at that. Much more interesting then people writing articles entitled 'Look At Me Ain't I Great' is the future and what it may bring and the impact Ferran and Txiki will have on the club. An impact that so far has been profound even if their timing and execution sucked donkey balls
You have a point in there somewhere.
Oh wait, actually. No you don't. That post is just shit. Revisionist. And shit. And also a little condescending and a lot sarcastic. But then someone's gotta carry on the blusterin'.
Anyway fuck it, Mancini got his just desserts. Your thoughts on Pellegrini are well documented if as shit as the post above. A little Tesco's reminder of what you think.
...turning to Pellegrini I guess one point going for him is that he plays nice with others and will do as he is told which from a DoF perspective is probably a managers best asset. I love Bobby Manc but he doesn't play well with others and politically this may cost him.
And if you get to Pellegrini's age and have won nothing of note I would be sceptical he has the necessary drive to ever do so. Getting an unfancied side to play above themselves is one thing but leading a top tier team from the front where you are expected to win the major prizes is a totally different ball game and his time at Real Madrid does not inspire confidence...
Its a bit like AVB at Chelsea and AVB at Spurs. Much as the media are prepping for a major Spurs wankathon (again) there is a world of difference in managing the two teams and a world of difference in the expectation placed on both teams. For Spurs finishing 3rd makes you manager of the year material. At Chelsea finishing 2nd makes you a fucking loser and winner of a P45
Mancini irrespective of what some people think has demonstrated through actual silverware that he can bring success at the top level. We can argue if that success is enough or whether other managers like Jose could bring even bigger success at this level - which is fair and legitimate debate - but not the Pellegrini's of this world. Some people can run a corner shop and others can run Tesco's. But don't think doing well at the former makes you even close to being competent at running the latter.
Glad you're warming to him though. Good to know you're a man with the courage of his convictions. Now if you'll excuse me i've got some bunting which needs taking down.
M18CTID said:BobK's post is actually a good one and shows that now the deed has been done and emotions aren't running quite so high, despite him being firmly behind Mancini he's also willing to accept the alternative viewpoint that he may well have contributed to his own downfall while giving Pellegrini the chance to ease his concerns about whether he's capable of making a good fist of the job here.
On the other hand, the likes of DD are completely incapable of entertaining an alternative viewpoint to his own and while his write-up is admittedly less provocative and condescending than some of the stuff he posts on here, he still can't properly bring himself to thank Mancini for winning us the FA Cup and the league title and given that he's a City fan I find that totally bizarre. He seems more arsed about screaming "I told you so" at everyone who disagreed with him.
Dave made his own bed, Billy. He dished it out from the start and he cast far and wide with his nasty barbs and name-calling and sneering condescension.BillyShears said:M18CTID said:BobK's post is actually a good one and shows that now the deed has been done and emotions aren't running quite so high, despite him being firmly behind Mancini he's also willing to accept the alternative viewpoint that he may well have contributed to his own downfall while giving Pellegrini the chance to ease his concerns about whether he's capable of making a good fist of the job here.
On the other hand, the likes of DD are completely incapable of entertaining an alternative viewpoint to his own and while his write-up is admittedly less provocative and condescending than some of the stuff he posts on here, he still can't properly bring himself to thank Mancini for winning us the FA Cup and the league title and given that he's a City fan I find that totally bizarre. He seems more arsed about screaming "I told you so" at everyone who disagreed with him.
I suspect that he's not the only one who feels like spending the rest of the summer screaming "i told you so". Maybe it's not the most mature way of handling the situation, but then if you'd spent the last six months being called everything from a **** to a rag to a prick for thinking Mancini was the wrong guy for the club, only to find Mansour and the the powers that be agreed with you, then you may well have a different view point when it comes to recriminations and perceived gloating.
Anyway Kowalski's spent the last six months playing to the cheap seats. That hasn't really changed in the last few days IMO and on that basis I've got fuck all time for him.
taconinja said:Dave made his own bed, Billy. He dished it out from the start and he cast far and wide with his nasty barbs and name-calling and sneering condescension.BillyShears said:M18CTID said:BobK's post is actually a good one and shows that now the deed has been done and emotions aren't running quite so high, despite him being firmly behind Mancini he's also willing to accept the alternative viewpoint that he may well have contributed to his own downfall while giving Pellegrini the chance to ease his concerns about whether he's capable of making a good fist of the job here.
On the other hand, the likes of DD are completely incapable of entertaining an alternative viewpoint to his own and while his write-up is admittedly less provocative and condescending than some of the stuff he posts on here, he still can't properly bring himself to thank Mancini for winning us the FA Cup and the league title and given that he's a City fan I find that totally bizarre. He seems more arsed about screaming "I told you so" at everyone who disagreed with him.
I suspect that he's not the only one who feels like spending the rest of the summer screaming "i told you so". Maybe it's not the most mature way of handling the situation, but then if you'd spent the last six months being called everything from a **** to a rag to a prick for thinking Mancini was the wrong guy for the club, only to find Mansour and the the powers that be agreed with you, then you may well have a different view point when it comes to recriminations and perceived gloating.
Anyway Kowalski's spent the last six months playing to the cheap seats. That hasn't really changed in the last few days IMO and on that basis I've got fuck all time for him.
Agreed although I was in favor of letting him go.moomba said:Just like it was when we won the title last season, and the "I told you so's" were going in the other direction we all need to get over ourselves.
We're all blues, we all have opinions. Sometimes we are wrong, sometimes we are right.
I wouldn't have sacked Mancini, time will tell whether I was right or (hopefully) wrong to have that opinion. In the long run it doesn't really matter.
On that I agree. Completely. There's far too much of that nonsense. Unfortunately two summers in a row now the "winning" side... although when the forum degenerates to this point it's hard to believe there is a winner... shows a decidedly childish bent. Not all of the side that was proved right, mind you. Enough though where it seems like it's in unison. Personally, I can't wait for June. Transfer season will put a lot of people quiet on this subject although sadly they'll just do move to another topic and we're likely to see Tolmie et al. being attacked and defended with the same ferocity.BillyShears said:taconinja said:Dave made his own bed, Billy. He dished it out from the start and he cast far and wide with his nasty barbs and name-calling and sneering condescension.BillyShears said:I suspect that he's not the only one who feels like spending the rest of the summer screaming "i told you so". Maybe it's not the most mature way of handling the situation, but then if you'd spent the last six months being called everything from a **** to a rag to a prick for thinking Mancini was the wrong guy for the club, only to find Mansour and the the powers that be agreed with you, then you may well have a different view point when it comes to recriminations and perceived gloating.
Anyway Kowalski's spent the last six months playing to the cheap seats. That hasn't really changed in the last few days IMO and on that basis I've got fuck all time for him.
Dave is a product of his environment just like you and I. My memory is long enough to remember the beginning of this argument, and how from very early on it became clear that any criticism of Mancini, no matter how justified, was always going to be met with sneering condescension, name calling, and nasty barbs.
I like you Taco, and I know you and Dave have your problems with each other - but the mind bogglingly hypocritical way in which people swan around this forum going "you fucking rag **** get behind the manager" only to cry about the abuse they suffer when they get it back in spades off someone like Dave is both funny and depressing at the same time. I'm not talking about you specifically btw, that's a general comment about some of the people who are now wanting the whole saga to be brushed under the carpet as if the last six months wasn't open warfare on a small group of posters who didn't fancy the manager.