Michael Owen vs Alan Shearer after calling Newcastle a Small Club

So Owen thinks the fans' estimate of the "size" of the club is off by a mere 10% ? Sounds like he doesn't think they're too deluded after all..
 
manclad said:
This is what I have been saying throughout this thread. A club can be well supported,have a big stadium and have been a big club in past decades. But they are not a big club unless they are winning trophies over a number of years. As well as having the big fanbase and big stadium.
And I am now bowing out of this thread as I don't really give a fuck about NUFC being a big club or not.
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To be fair everyone has their own definition of what a big club should be. It shouldn't matter to a clubs own fans but limiting it to just 3 or 4 clubs as some do is the problem. To take that standard though and say Newcastle are cartel level big is overrating them and some Newcastle fans do seem to be that way.

That standard set by Liverpool and United fans, is disrespectful to times gone by and their own roots before they were that big. So I can see the other side to it. As long as it's made clear they(Newcastle fans) aren't putting them up their with United or Liverpool or above other clubs who are easily on the same level as them at the very least.

If I were to do a top 10, Newcastle would be in or around it for me personally but I can see why others might not. They had their success for the trophy cabinet/books to show, even if it was a very long time ago. They have atleast spent the majority of their time as a topflight club(since there was a topflight/2 divisions in 1892). Their 87 seasons from a possible 116, is only 3 behind City(90) and 3 more than Spurs(84) and Chelsea(84). As well as the big stadium and large support that you'd expect of a top 10 club.

This list is a good starting point to settle it:
https://talksport.com/football/550782/most-trophies-england-liverpool-european-cup/

Slightly off topic but since when is the Inter Cities Fairs Cup considered a major title? Seems like it's been included to boost Leeds and Newcastle's trophies up.

It should never be included for me, even if it had good teams in it.
A) It's not a UEFA recognised trophy
B) It had a one team per city entry system which often meant clubs like Arsenal, Spurs, Everton and Manchester City were denied entry. Due to having a higher placed city rival at the time. Being a one club city such as Leeds and Newcastle, was therefore a huge advantage. City never once got invited, if I remember reading right.

Chalk that off, Newcastle should be level with Blackburn at joint 9th place for major honours, with 10 trophies. Leeds should be joint 16th with Sheffield Utd, with 5 trophies.
 
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Might be considered off topic but this had me thinking and comparing. If Liverpool and Manchester United are the standard, why is it not just the top two that are considered "big clubs", since they are sort of in a league of their own?

A top 4 suggests that Arsenal or Spurs(laughable) ever had eras that redefined what a big club was, domestically or otherwise. Chelsea were the first and only London club to lift the European cup so that's European success out of the window.

If we are settling it by major honours, Arsenal are the closest with 29 trophies but they are closer to Chelsea(24), Aston Villa(20) and City(19) than they are Liverpool(42) or United(42).

Domestically what I think sets those two clubs apart is extent and span of their peak English football dominance. Liverpool and United in their peak had two successive decades where they picked up 5 or more topflight titles. In other words half or more of all the topflight titles were Liverpool's in the 70s(5) and 80s(6) and United's in the 90s(6) and 00s(5).

Arsenal are closest, they have done it once in the 30s(5) but didn't repeat it. Aston Villa did it once in the 1890s(5). City(4) could make it 5 in this decade, if they pick up the PL this season. Another motivation to make it 3 in a row perhaps? Not that we need any extra motivation.
 
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Talking about the size of clubs is a bit like boasting about the kind of car you drive, the money you make, how pretty your girlfriend is, or any other lame measurement of manliness. I'm sure Bury fans thought they were a big club when they won the FA Cup final 6-0 in 1903. (Headlines probably 'Bury ruining football and showing no respect to Derby'). The fact that United are now a small club in every aspect apart from sponsorship and global lemming fan base is testament to how things change.

As a City fan, i'm enjoying some aspects of being a big club but absolutely loathe some of the trappings that come with it. At the end of the day any club can be big or small. Just depends on how it is being run.
 
Trophy counts, size of fanbase, revenues. To me is the same as the league position every season, life goes on if you're not top of league or don't finish your season there. You just keep going and hope for improvement.

However, even though some matter more than others, all of those things matter to some extent. As much as anyone tries to say they don't because they impact the club in significant ways. That's the main reason I take an interest in the stats and comparisons. It also helps to know the level that the club is actually at(not what Sky and the BBC tells us), which helps in explaining why the treatment City often gets is unjustified compared to a Spurs or Chelsea.

It doesn't bother me that Liverpool and United are a fair bit bigger than City in a lot of ways. I don't believe anyone who says they don't care if City erode some of that while the times are good though. I hope their past achievements are being used as motivation, targets to aim for and equal or better where possible.

I for one was pleased that City overtook Spurs on major trophies last season and hope Poch realised it after his previous outbursts. :) We should have made more of it if anything, if only to wind the people up who go on about trophies all the time. The press did when Liverpool went equal with United for example. Maybe City will get a mention if/when they overtake Chelsea and start closing the gap on Arsenal.

Success, growth etc as fans is to be celebrated. As long as we don't become rag-like or dipper-like in doing so.
 
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