Middle East Conflict

If most normal western person feels sick in the stomach watching what’s happening in Gaza right now then god knows how the Arab/Muslims will be feeling. No wonder it’s a never ending cycle.

Ask yourself this.

Had Hamas not committed one of the worlds biggest terrorist attacks on Saturday morning, what you’re seeing in Gaza right now wouldn’t be happening.

Want to blame someone?

Blame Hamas and its leadership who couldn’t give a fuck about its people it’s pretends to represent. It uses them for political capital and nothing more. It controls the $Billions of dollars in aid that goes in, diverts most of it for itself, buys weapons rather than using it for good, I could go on.

Nobody wants to see civilians being killed, no one, that is other than Hamas and its fighters who set out to do just that the other day.
 
Ask yourself this.

Had Hamas not committed one of the worlds biggest terrorist attacks on Saturday morning, what you’re seeing in Gaza right now wouldn’t be happening.

Want to blame someone?

Blame Hamas and its leadership who couldn’t give a fuck about its people it’s pretends to represent. It uses them for political capital and nothing more. It controls the $Billions of dollars in aid that goes in, diverts most of it for itself, buys weapons rather than using it for good, I could go on.

Nobody wants to see civilians being killed, no one, that is other than Hamas and its fighters who set out to do just that the other day.
It isn't that simple. Have a read of this academic report:


It summarises that both Palestine and Israel feel that they retaliate to acts of aggression by the other.
"Over one half of Israelis* and three quarters of Palestinians think the other side seeks to take over their land. When accounting for their own acts of aggression, Israelis often claim to be merely responding to Palestinian violence (13), and Palestinians often see themselves as simply reacting to Israeli violence (46)."
 
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For all of that bluster, they don't have to look too far, or esoterically in the Koran for their excuses to hate, and kill Jews. It's there, and as straight forward as it gets.

Unfortunately, it is used and acted upon by a violent minority.

Once I'd checked that Paul Moulden had opened a chippy (had to look), your reply got me thinking: has anyone ever decided that a passage in a sacred text 'is as straightforward as it gets'' and repudiated it?

Qur'an 4v34 is just such a passage because it appears to sanction domestic violence.

I have pages and pages of exegesis on it. Understandably Muslim feminist writers aren't impressed, and a mate of mine got treated to a 20 minute disquisition on this āyah when he interviewed Shaykh Abdal Hakim Murad up at Oxford University. The Shaykh is also known as Tim Winter and is the brother of the sports writer Henry Winter.

But in her unflinching opposition to the passage, the Muslim feminist author Amina Wadud wrote, 'I have come to say 'no' outright to the literal implementation of this passage.' She continues, 'this verse, and the literal interpretation of hudud (penal code) both imply an ethical standard of human actions that are archaic and barbaric at this time in history.'

This is the only example of a Muslim scholar rejecting some of the Qur'an that I know of.

But a lot of (usually educated) European Muslims are also repelled by the notorious hudud punishments and do not identify with them in any way.

Meanwhile, in Christianity, there's Richard Holloway, the former Bishop of Edinburgh. He reckons that if a passage in the Bible looks like it's a load of bollocks, you should just ignore it. While still in post, he wrote this book:

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Of course, that didn't go down well and he eventually left the Church in disgust at its homophobia.

Just thought it was worth a mention.
 
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The scale of war we are now seeing, the devastation and death is a direct result of actions Hamas took on Saturday.
Of course, but this is not the first action by Hamas, nor by Israel. Viewing this incident in isolation is unrealistic. Have a read of the report I posted - it was not possible to have replied as quickly as you did if you had read the report.
If you just keep taking it back, Israel will now retaliate and they will blame the attack by Hamas, which you have, Hamas will then blame the killing of Palestinians and the seizure of land, and the control of movement, etc. Israel will then say that is essential because of the attacks...it goes on and on and on.
 
Of course, but this is not the first action by Hamas, nor by Israel. Viewing this incident in isolation is unrealistic. Have a read of the report I posted - it was not possible to have replied as quickly as you did if you had read the report.

Given the scale of destruction and death and what is undoubtedly to come, I feel it’s more than fair to look at this and discuss it in some form of isolation.

We are about to see full scale war in the Middle East imo and the direct trigger for that was Hamas and its attack.
 
The scale of war we are now seeing, the devastation and death is a direct result of actions Hamas took on Saturday.
Of course it is, however one can not argue that the degree of suppression of the Palestinian people has not got something to do with it

The violence is but a symptom of much deeper problems, problems that have been ignored especially by the US, the US has just sat back whilst settlement’s were expanded and the daily violence inflicted on Palestinians

The problem is many people don’t look at this in a wholistic way, until the route cause is dealt with this cycle of violence will just keep going and the horror continue

People who believe in one camp or another especially on here, need to metaphorically speaking “sit in the middle “ and look at it from both sides, there is no Israel good Palestinians bad or the other way round

As the famous sage Rumi put it

Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, There is a field. I'll meet you there.
 
Given the scale of destruction and death and what is undoubtedly to come, I feel it’s more than fair to look at this and discuss it in some form of isolation.

We are about to see full scale war in the Middle East imo and the direct trigger for that was Hamas and its attack.
Have you read the report yet?
 

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