Middle East Conflict

[halfcenturyup]

Think it's you that might need the history lessons. Presume you are fine with the Egyptians blockading them then, it's just Israel you have the issue with.

I thought the Egyptians couldn't let anything in without Israeli approval, and they don't want to let anyone out because they suspect, probably quite rightly, that Israel won't let them back in again?

 

[inbetween]

You seem to be suggesting only Israel has a right to reply.

Many people in the UK go on about the number of immigrants illegal or otherwise that come to Britain.

Imagine a scenario where 40 million entered Britain and then set up the government of the land.

Because that's what Palestinians have experienced. Hence my question on whether they are entitled to use violence against their occupiers.

When you talk of setting up a government on the land, which land are you referring to because isn't this the problem? In terms of the west, Palestine is not even a recognised country as it stands so essentially there is no land that you're referencing.

The slogan I've seen repeated by many including Hamas is that Palestine will be free from the river to the sea. This is essentially a demand for Israel to be eliminated from Earth.

I hope you can see what's wrong with this and the likelihood of success given Israel is a US backed and likely nuclear armed country....

In any event, do I believe that terrorist attacks on 'occupier' civilians are justified, absolutely not.

 

[inbetween]

Surely Hamas and Hezbollah are a product of the conditions under which Palestinian people are having to live though? Clearly nobody condones the massacre and gleeful murder/torture of Israeli civilians, but I am keen to understand what the correct response iswhen Israeli forces are bulldozing Palestinian settlements and dispossessing Palestinian people in contravention of international law? What is the correct response to blockades? Israeli forces have unlawfully killed and injured Palestinian civilians who have protested against having their land confiscated. The IDF regularly engages in the harassment and intimidation of the civilian population. Surely the violence being inflicted on the Palestinian people is never going to be met with a non-violent response, but what kind of violence is acceptable to the international community?

A peaceful resolution/two state solution clearly can't involve a Hamas government going forward, but there's also no way that an ultra nationalist far right government like the one Israel currently has can move us to that point either.

I think you've answered your own question.

Hezbollah and Hamas are not a by-product of Palestinian resistance, neither believe that Israel has any right to exist but Israel does exist and will exist.

With this in mind, how can peace ever be achieved if a Hamas government continues to be tolerated or supported as part of the Palestinian cause? This situation will otherwise forever remain locked in and the Palestinian people will continue to suffer for as long as a two-state solution remains impossible.

So aren't you actually sort of justifying the Israeli goal which is to eliminate Hamas? I'd say that the Palestinians should vote them out but democracy hasn't exactly been alive in Gaza in recent years. It's hard to call for an election to remove the people who have the AK47's.

 

[Eds]

I thought the Egyptians couldn't let anything in without Israeli approval, and they don't want to let anyone out because they suspect, probably quite rightly, that Israel won't let them back in again?

Not sure that is the case to be honest. Egypt themselves kept Rafah mainly closed for nearly five years from mid 2013 due to security concerns, nothing to do with Israel. But of course that doesn't suit some people's agenda (not saying you) who are happy to continue to support the actions of a terrorist organisation.

 

[kaz7]

Not sure that is the case to be honest. Egypt themselves kept Rafah mainly closed for nearly five years from mid 2013 due to security concerns, nothing to do with Israel. But of course that doesn't suit some people's agenda (not saying you) who are happy to continue to support the actions of a terrorist organisation.

Who is supporting hamas ?

 

[metalblue]

The point was that the Palestinian Arabs weren't simply sitting there minding their own business when the Jews turned up out of the blue.

For sure they weren’t. As I’ve previously posted at the point of Israel claiming independence/ statehood they were roundly attacked by Arab nations.

Everyone’s shit smells in this conflict. Including Britain’s.

 

[metalblue]

Ukraine didn't use it's own citizens as human shields, Ukraine didn't kill a couple of thousand civilians by entering Russia and committing acts of horror.

Apart from that it's the same yes.

Even saying that the Israelis should stop the bombing IMHO.

Yup the Ukraine war would be over if Russia just packed up and went home nobody could say the same about Israel/ Palestine mate.

 

[St.Pauli support]

Who is supporting hamas ?

Speaking about Germany, all those who where dancing in the streets, or the woman interviewed on tv yesterday laughing into the camera and joyfully telling the journalist her whole family was celebrating that wonderful day of 7 October. It has been celebrated on many streets in many countries and it has to do with Islamic antisemitism.

Of course that can be called support for Hamas.

As a side note, German teachers have to cope with that emotional topic of Hamas/Israel and it's an immense problem every day. Teachers are confronted with all sorts of hatred and antisemitism in the classroom as clear as it can be. The situation is out of control and it will take several generations to come to a respectful coexistence, and that's only in Germany, far away from the epicenter.

Teachers can't control the influence within the families as well as religious places.

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

The brass neck on these cunts

“The Hamas-run ministry of health in Gaza has put out a statement on Telegram saying that hospitals in the Gaza Strip have "completely collapsed".

"We confirm that 12 hospitals and 32 health centers are out of service, and we fear that more will be out of service in the coming hours due to targeting and running out of fuel," the statement said.”

If Hamas really cared about innocent lives they wouldn’t go round killing women and children and people attending a peace festival.

These monsters couldn’t give a fuck about Palestinian lives either.

 

[Username Required]

From the 10th of October 2023.

Make of this what you will.

According to the latest Washington Institute polling, conducted in July 2023, Hamas’s decision to break the ceasefire was not a popular move. While the majority of Gazans (65%) did think it likely that there would be “a large military conflict between Israel and Hamas in Gaza” this year, a similar percentage (62%) supported Hamas maintaining a ceasefire with Israel. Moreover, half (50%) agreed with the following proposal: “Hamas should stop calling for Israel’s destruction, and instead accept a permanent two-state solution based on the 1967 borders.” Moreover, across the region, Hamas has lost popularity over time among many Arab publics. This decline in popularity may have been one of the motivating factors behind the group’s decision to attack.

read more here:

Polls Show Majority of Gazans Were Against Breaking Ceasefire; Hamas and Hezbollah Unpopular Among Key Arab Publics

Recent Washington Institute polls have tracked Gazans’ views on Hamas and the ceasefire with Israel, along with a wider regional decline in popularity for Hamas and Hezbollah.

www.washingtoninstitute.org