Middle East Conflict

[domalino]

Hamas didn't give any notice to the dead Israeli civilians though.

Ask yourself this - what would Russia do in a similar situation?
Have you seen what happened to Aleppo or Grozny?
Israeli military are saints compared to others.

Your ability to compare Israel to the worst, most abhorent criminal groups in the world and say "see we're not quite as bad as them!!" as if we're supposed to applaud is remarkable.

 

[halfcenturyup]

So by definition what happened on 10/7 is without question an act of Genocide.

Of that I have no doubts.

Then you would be wrong, imho.

 

[Username Required]

Hamas releases propaganda video showing 3 hostages rebuking Netanyahu

* * *

www.timesofisrael.com

Here is a full translation:

Bibi Netanyahu, greetings.We are in captivity, the captivity of Hamas, twenty-three — how many days? — twenty-three days.Yesterday was the press conference with the families of the hostages.We know that there was the suggestion of a ceasefire. You said you would free all of us. You were obligated to free all of us. And instead of that, we carry the burden — political, security, military, official — of you, because of the crime that you did on the 7th of October, because the army wasn’t there, nobody arrived, nobody protected us, and we, simple citizens, citizens who pay taxes to the State of Israel, are in captivity. With conditions, without conditions, you are killing us. You will kill us. You want to kill all of us. You want the IDF to kill all of us. It’s not enough that you slaughtered all of them? Not enough Israeli citizens have died? Free. Free us now. Free their [Palestinian] citizens, free their prisoners, free us, free — free all of us, let us, let us return to our families, now! Now! Now! Now! Now!

Hamas video: Israeli hostages accuse Netanyahu of war crimes

Hamas has waged a complex psychological warfare, casting doubt on the authenticity of the hostages' words.

www.jpost.com

 

[halfcenturyup]

Hamas didn't give any notice to the dead Israeli civilians though.

Shakes head at the irrelevance of this statement. We get it. Hamas bad.

 

[Pelegrinni]

Genocide: The 4 elements are in bold:

the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.
"a campaign of genocide"

1. Deliberate Killing: I don't think this is in question. Beheadings, shooting up a rave, family burnt in a house etc. You get the picture

2. Large Number of people: Over 1000 satisfies this element.

3: Of particular nation or ethnic group: They were killed for being Jews or Israeli ( or perceived to be either or both).

4: Aim of destroying that nation or group: Many Hamas leaders have stated this and it was a part of the founding Charter of Hamas. I.e to destroy Israel and Create and Islamic Caliphate of Palestine as part of a longer term goal to create a Worldwide Islamic Caliphate.


So by definition what happened on 10/7 is without question an act of Genocide.

Of that I have no doubts.

Good post.
Some people are so blinded by bigotry it's unbelievable.
Israel asking civilians to leave a war zone so they don't get killed by accident is now classed as Genocide by these people.

 

[halfcenturyup]

Listen to military experts debate this on Youtube. Many have stated that if a civilian infrastructure is being used for military purpose, it automatically becomes a legitimate military target.
Warning civilians to leave the facility is to confirm that they are not the primary target of any attack. Should the civilians refuse to leave, then the consequences is on them.

Oh. Youtube. Can you point me to anywhere in international humanitarian law that states if civilians refuse (or can't) leave a protected area, that "the consequences" are "on them"?

 

[Dax777]

If an hospital is being used for military purpose, then it becomes a legitimate target.
Asking sick people to move out of arms way is the noble thing to do by any military. They would be better anywhere else than dead. I saw a video of one car blown up in the south and that looks like a roadside bomb.
Does the 7,000 figure include the 500+ people Islamic Jihad rockets killed in that hospital? What about those peope killed by failed rocket launches within Gaza (30% of rockets launched fall within Gaza)?

I'm not sure 500 people died in the bombing of the parking lot. We can safely assume Hamas over exaggerates to win public support.

Also a more than nominal number of the dead were probably killed by Hamas. Through bombings and the like.

Hamas is as great of.a threat to the survival of Palestinians as the Israeli bombs are.

Hamas stated clearly in their charter, what their aims are. They want to rid Palestine of Jews. Now this is what genocide looks like. But it seems they can do no wrong in some people's eyes.
Many people are homeless all over the world due to military conflict. It's not unique to Gaza. If you don't want Gazans to be homeless, then you should support any effort to rid the place of Hamas.

As it relates to Hamas and it's extermination. I couldn't agree more.

I'm sure a majority of Palestinians ( and Gazans) agree in principle with Hamas. Frankly a majority of the middle east does. But most wouldn't sacrifice everything for it.

You have to wipe the Militant version of Hamas out. There is no other way. They must go. It's what's best for both Israel and the Palestinians.

 

[Pelegrinni]

Are the Palestinian's on the West Bank allowed to fight back against Daily Oppression and theft of their land by Right Wing Settlers? Are they allowed to inflict so called collateral damage by killing a few thousand Israelis in the process, this is were your logic is leading, but it sounds like you have an insatiable blood lust (as long as the blood is not yours)

I am sick of armchair warriors on both sides with their willful disregard to the suffering of people

I can assure you that secretly, Fatah members would be happy with the current crackdown of Hamas members in the West Bank. Their influence has been growing there in recent years.
Also, the Palestinians had the opportunity to set up their country with the Oslo accord. They rejected the deal and made no counter offer. I'm not sure what you want Israel to do but it would be good to hear your suggestion.
That deal gave them the whole of Gaza, 94% of West Bank plus Jerusalem as capital. This deal was brokered by the Saudis and the Palestinians let them down big time.
But if you have a better solution, then share it.

 

[halfcenturyup]

Good post.
Some people are so blinded by bigotry it's unbelievable.
Israel asking civilians to leave a war zone so they don't get killed by accident is now classed as Genocide by these people.

If they are, then they are as wrong about that as you are about the military not having to take all reasonable precautions to protect the lives of non-combatants even if a protected area is used by the defensive force and is therefore a military target. And I don't mean asking them to leave. And I don't even mean if the defensive force is committing a war crime by refusing to let civilians leave.

 

[Dax777]

Then you would be wrong, imho.

Please explain?