Middle East Conflict

[Luddite_Blue]

I know I’ll get pelters for this from various quarters, but I’ve got broad shoulders: I fully understand Israel’s reaction to October 7th, because it was an entirely human reaction.

Doesn’t mean I agree with or endorse it, but I completely understand it.

What were those mad cunts in Hamas expecting? Absolutely insane decision. And it has fucked them and their cause for a generation, which is ultimately not a good thing.

Whatever it was borne from, it was a catastrophic decision.

This is unarguable as things stand.

The premise you're promoting doesn't seem to be completely correct.

How has the "insane decision" fucked Hamas and their cause for a generation?

What is your "irrefutable evidence" for this given you've said it is unarguable?

 

[Luddite_Blue]

Talking of Tik Tok, Seems there's been pressure from Aipac to bring the whole thing down. To many videos of all the atrocities Israel have been committing reaching the young folk of America. One of the most watched contents.

 

[Scottyboi]

The premise you're promoting doesn't seem to be completely correct.

How has the "insane decision" fucked Hamas and their cause for a generation?

What is your "irrefutable evidence" for this given you've said it is unarguable?

Because their leadership was taken out, Hezbollah virtually destroyed and Syria has been overthrown which means Iran can no longer arm Hamas via Lebanon and Syria. It has been a strategic catastrophe from Iran, never in a million years did they expect the events of the 7th of October to lead to this.

 

[Scottyboi]

You really think that is the main reason for banning TikTok in America? I thought it was due to China and their spying, and the US not being able to control what algorithms they want.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

No, I'm not disputing that. How could I? I'm suggesting 7/10 was almost inevitable given how the Palestinians have been treated in the 20th Century and beyond. The only people who have my sympathies are the innocents on both sides who are being led by evil.

In a perfect world, Netanyahu and any offshoots of Hamas and Hezbollah will soon be off to hell and some semblance of peace can be finally reached in the region.

Hard to argue with much of that.

 

[blueinsa]

You really think that is the main reason for banning TikTok in America? I thought it was due to China and their spying, and the US not being able to control what algorithms they want.

We have gone from TikTok needs banning because it’s a right wing cesspit to the realisation it’s platform gives the huge exposure the pro Palestinian cause gets on there so it now needs protecting from Donald.

Flip…flop…

 

[Scottyboi]

We have gone from TikTok needs banning because it’s a right wing cesspit to the realisation it’s platform gives the huge exposure the pro Palestinian cause gets on there so it now needs protecting from Donald.

Flip…flop…

America has a hard on for China and when I watched them interrogating the owner of TikTok all they mentioned was his links to China, I personally don't think the ban has anything to do with Israel.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

The outcome was changing the historical narrative, capturing the world's attention and sewing division within Israel.

I don't believe Hamas deluded themselves they would achieve a military victory or the whole aim was to bargain for a broadly equal number of prisoners to fighters lost in the attack.

I don't think their expected time frame for success was 2.5 years either.

Israel was in the days after the attack a victim. Now it isn't. It's the oppressor.

Most of the world now views them as the racist settler state they always were.

I think you are representing the outcome dishonestly if you are limiting it to those matters in your first paragraph.

I think, as you say, the impact upon Israel has been negative in many respects, but not catastrophic - unlike for the Palestinian people, which was my point.

The attack of 7/10 has unleashed a series of events that has fucked Hamas, Hezbollah and to some extent Iran. This is undeniable, so to paint it, as you have done, as overall being detrimental to Israel here and now (and not in 100 years ffs) is plainly wrong.

I think Hamas must have expected a more forceful response from the rest of the Arab world (plus Iran) than actually occurred and this was a miscalculation from them.

You appear to be painting it as some sort of strategic victory for Hamas which is not in any way supported by the current state of play. It actually sounds more like one of Baldrick’s cunning plans than any strategic master plan.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

What do you want?

A statement that October 7th was wrong? Or merely that it was "disproportionate"?

I remind you what you said. "It was the scale and nature of what went on on 7/10 that was wholly misjudged and completely counterproductive." Whereas i would say it was wrong, regardless of the result (either in terms of casualties or outcome). The way you expressed it seems to imply that there is some measure of atrocity that would be "proportionate". I'm sorry I played to that by asking "proportionate to what?".

You also told me, "Your argument appears to be predicated on the basis that because armed resistance is justified then that gives Hamas carte blanche to commit any atrocity, which is completely absurd."

It would be absurd if that was my argument, rather than your unwarranted extrapolation.

Now my question was, if not dishonest, intended to explore why - whatever the casualties or outcome - October 7th happened. Hamas was promoted by Netanyahu because they opposed a two-state solution, and I wonder whether, faced with the alternatives of submit or leave, how should Hamas respond? The question was less than candid because it was the choice offered by Smotrich in his "decisive plan".

What is Smotrich's frightening, suicidal plan for Israel's future? | The Jerusalem Post

The signs are a clear warning to those who would stand in the way of annexation or attempt to enforce the law in opposition to the messianic, settler vision.

m.jpost.com

Feel free to consider what would be a proportionate response to seeing the prospect of a Palestinian state being actively destroyed. If you can avoid masturbation as an accompaniment I'm sure we'd all be grateful.

Bore off.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

The premise you're promoting doesn't seem to be completely correct.

How has the "insane decision" fucked Hamas and their cause for a generation?

What is your "irrefutable evidence" for this given you've said it is unarguable?

You are misrepresenting what I said. If I’d wanted to assert that the whole of the post was unarguable then I would have inserted the word ‘all’ before ‘unarguable’. Also the word ‘this’ rather than ‘that’ at the beginning of that sentence should have indicated I was referring to the previous paragraph not the whole post when deploying the word ‘unarguable’.

What is unarguable is that as things stand (and not in 100 years) it was a catastrophic decision by Hamas.

Do you disagree with that?

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Because their leadership was taken out, Hezbollah virtually destroyed and Syria has been overthrown which means Iran can no longer arm Hamas via Lebanon and Syria. It has been a strategic catastrophe from Iran, never in a million years did they expect the events of the the 7th of October to lead to this.

Hamas got their Weapons through the tunnels under the border with Egypt.

I think you are representing the outcome dishonestly if you are limiting it to those matters in your first paragraph.

I think, as you say, the impact upon Israel has been negative in many respects, but not catastrophic - unlike for the Palestinian people, which was my point.

The attack of 7/10 has unleashed a series of events that has fucked Hamas, Hezbollah and to some extent Iran. This is undeniable, so to paint it, as you have done, as overall being detrimental to Israel here and now (and not in 100 years ffs) is plainly wrong.

I think Hamas must have expected a more forceful response from the rest of the Arab world (plus Iran) than actually occurred and this was a miscalculation from them.

You appear to be painting it as some sort of strategic victory for Hamas which is not in any way supported by the current state of play. It actually sounds more like one of Baldrick’s cunning plans than any strategic master plan.

It's possible for them to have bitten off more than they could chew and still be aware that a military victory wasn't possible.

Some might have described the Black Hand Gang as Baldrickian, but 4 years after their killing Franz Ferdinand, Bosnia was part of Serb dominated Yugoslavia.

I've already said the time frame wasn't 2.5 years. The rhetoric coming out of Hamas after the attack and outset of the war talked in decades not of months and years.

 

[Vic]

You are misrepresenting what I said. If I’d wanted to assert that the whole of the post was unarguable then I would have inserted the word ‘all’ before ‘unarguable’. Also the word ‘this’ rather than ‘that’ at the beginning of that sentence should have indicated I was referring to the previous paragraph not the whole post when deploying the word ‘unarguable’.

What is unarguable is that as things stand (and not in 100 years) it was a catastrophic decision by Hamas.

Do you disagree with that?

Not a reply to me, I know, but it's rather boring to keep saying something is unarguable then invite people to argue with it.

 

[The blue phantom]

America has a hard on for China and when I watched them interrogating the owner of TikTok all they mentioned was his links to China, I personally don't think the ban has anything to do with Israel.

The Americans are letting Facebook and Twitter run riot and go rogue yet some of the senators have said Tik Tok is spreading missinformation. I mean ycmiu.

 

[Luddite_Blue]

Because their leadership was taken out, Hezbollah virtually destroyed and Syria has been overthrown which means Iran can no longer arm Hamas via Lebanon and Syria. It has been a strategic catastrophe from Iran, never in a million years did they expect the events of the 7th of October to lead to this.

So



and even the monstrous genocide facilitator Blinken says Hamas has gained as many members as it lost amid Israel’s relentless slaughter of countless Palestinian civilians over the past 15 months.

Blinken Says Israel’s Assault Has Created as Many Hamas Members as It’s Killed

Blinken’s remark comes after Israel has killed at least 45,000 Palestinians in Gaza, per the most conservative count.

truthout.org

How is Hamas having as many members as on 7th October and Israel being fully established as a pariah state, Hamas and their cause being fucked for a generation?

And if Hamas and their cause are fucked for a generation, why has Israel accepted the ceasefire and why didn't they complete the ethnic cleansing of and the settlement of North Gaza?

Is Israel that weak that it can't deal with a Hamas that is fucked for a generation without full American support?

 

[blueinsa]

America has a hard on for China and when I watched them interrogating the owner of TikTok all they mentioned was his links to China, I personally don't think the ban has anything to do with Israel.

100% correct, everything to do with China mate.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Some might have described the Black Hand Gang as Baldrickian, but 4 years after their killing Franz Ferdinand, Bosnia was part of Serb dominated Yugoslavia.

Имам лукав план

 

[The blue phantom]

100% correct, everything to do with China mate.

Yet theve just hired Musk who's pro China & has a cosy relationship with Xi Jinping. Lol.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Not a reply to me, I know, but it's rather boring to keep saying something is unarguable then invite people to argue with it.

If I tried my very hardest for the rest of my days I could never lay a glove on you when it came to being boring.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

We have gone from TikTok needs banning because it’s a right wing cesspit to the realisation it’s platform gives the huge exposure the pro Palestinian cause gets on there so it now needs protecting from Donald.

Flip…flop…

Did anyone ever say that tiktok was right-wing? Or have you made this up or confused it with twitter?

It's a platform mostly consumed by and dominated by young people making content.

It's not right wing or left wing It's consumerist or pushing dance moves or snippets of individual topics.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

If I tried my very hardest for the rest of my days I could never lay a glove on you when it came to being boring.

Do you think humility adds or detracts from how interesting a person is to people in general?