Middle East Conflict

Psychedelic Casual said:
Once Israel starts its ground offensive in Gaza, will Hezbollah and the PIJ (who have joined up on the Lebanon border with Israel) attack?

BBC News just said that Israelis close to the border are living in safe rooms and bomb shelters as well as others evacuating further South as there have been exchanges in fire already.
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Wouldn’t surprise me at all. Keep going back to thinking Hamas (well, Iran) would have known this was going to be the reaction from Israel, I can’t imagine they wouldn’t have planned for something else to happen when the ground offensive does start.
 
meltonblue said:
Wouldn’t surprise me at all. Keep going back to thinking Hamas (well, Iran) would have known this was going to be the reaction from Israel, I can’t imagine they wouldn’t have planned for something else to happen when the ground offensive does start.
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It would tactically make sense. Wait until Israel deploy troops, tanks and their concentration to the South, then hit them from the North.

Let’s hope it doesn’t happen, but why would PIJ move to join up with Hezbollah at the border?


*nobody play The Fall for a while, or Frank Sidebottom
 
meltonblue said:
Wouldn’t surprise me at all. Keep going back to thinking Hamas (well, Iran) would have known this was going to be the reaction from Israel, I can’t imagine they wouldn’t have planned for something else to happen when the ground offensive does start.
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It's the same old plan as far as I can see. Goad Israel into attacking them, then let the world media condemn israel.

There'll be the usual booby traps, child deaths, a few Israeli soldiers captured and tortured, negotiated prisoners exchanges, a few hospitals bombed out of existence, more death and destruction. Then a negotiated peace when they're all exhausted of whatever. Leaving a load of anger and resentment until we go again in ten years time. (Soz I don't mean to be flippant, just seen it before).

I'm wondering when Hamas will get their hands on a dirty bomb because out of the two parties at war they seem the ones most likely to use one.
 
Psychedelic Casual said:
Once Israel starts its ground offensive in Gaza, will Hezbollah and the PIJ (who have joined up on the Lebanon-Israel border) attack from the North?

BBC News just said that Israelis close to the border are living in safe rooms and bomb shelters as well as others evacuating further South as there have been exchanges in fire already.
Click to expand...

The USA have put a carrier group near the north and have clearly threatened hezbollah they will intervene if they try to join in, because Hezbollah have just said that they won’t pay attention to warnings from major powers not to join in (including Arab powers and the UN)

So if they do, it would be Hezbollah signing their own death warrants.

Watch for a public warning by the US next and then they’ll have full justification to defend Israel if Hezbollah try anything.
 
domalino said:
The USA have put a carrier group near the north and have clearly threatened hezbollah they will intervene if they try to join in, because Hezbollah have just said that they won’t pay attention to warnings from major powers not to join in (including Arab powers and the UN)

So if they do, it would be Hezbollah signing their own death warrants.

Watch for a public warning by the US next and then they’ll have full justification to defend Israel if Hezbollah try anything.
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Good take on that mate.

Hopefully it ends soon, for everyone's sake.
 
Other than obviously being against completely senseless wars, I have to admit I’d be completely fine with Hezbollah trying to join in after such clear and reasonable warnings and the US wiping them out.

A world with fewer Islamic extremists is always good, and the case is so black and white I don’t think even Iran could really complain much. From the Hezbollah statement It actually sounds like all the major Arab powers are all telling them not to do anything so I don’t. It would spiral into something bigger.


Plus American involvement would put restraint on Israel as the use of force by the 2 would be compared, and it would make humanitarian corridors, aid and medicine much easier for the US to put into Gaza.


I wouldn’t want another proper war though, and I doubt they are stupid enough to actually do anything. I guess what I’m trying to say is I hope nothing happens but if it does there could be upsides for Palestinians as well.
 
domalino said:
The USA have put a carrier group near the north and have clearly threatened hezbollah they will intervene if they try to join in, because Hezbollah have just said that they won’t pay attention to warnings from major powers not to join in (including Arab powers and the UN)

So if they do, it would be Hezbollah signing their own death warrants.

Watch for a public warning by the US next and then they’ll have full justification to defend Israel if Hezbollah try anything.
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If the US gets involved all bets are off, they can’t defeat Hezbollah from the air, boots on the ground?

They will be hoping that the threat is enough, it’s not in their strategic interests to get involved, the history of US involvement in the Middle East is patchy at best

A lot of things have been said in anger over the last week or so
 
Grassland Blue said:
Are the poets sane, due to them being the lifeboats?
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Poetry often gets deployed by mystics to convey their non-dual understanding of reality (the haiku and waka poems of Zen Buddhist masters being the most obvious example). The Sufis are the (often unconventional) mystics of Islam, so maybe that’s what Hafiz was alluding to.

Are mystics any saner than the rest of us?

Not having been vouchsafed any kind of mystical experience myself, I simply don’t know.
 
BringBackSwales said:
Surely governments are held to much higher moral standards than terrorists?
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It would be nice to think so BUT I don't think there has been a government in the history of the world that put protecting the innocent of an enemy country above protecting the innocent of their own country. Somehow I do not think Israel will be the first. For me International Law only works if justice is served. i.e. International Law should go into Gaza and pull out all the Hamas terrorists to face a court of justice.
 
Palerider said:
It would be nice to think so BUT I don't think there has been a government in the history of the world that put protecting the innocent of an enemy country above protecting the innocent of their own country. Somehow I do not think Israel will be the first. For me International Law only works if justice is served. i.e. International Law should go into Gaza and pull out all the Hamas terrorists to face a court of justice.
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Personally I dont see how governments can indiscriminately bomb civilian housing, hospitals, schools, children. Hamas terrorists are vile scum but the blanket bombing of densely packed civilian areas, as well as deprivation of food, water, electricity and shelter isn’t how governments should behave, is it? What a dogs bollocks of a mess
 
BringBackSwales said:
Surely governments are held to much higher moral standards than terrorists?
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They are meant to be

The big problem is that Israel had disproportionate response as their go to weapon, and to be fair it worked in some circumstances, but enemies lean and adapt

I honestly believe there is a much bigger game going on here, as Hamas knew what would happen, I think some in Israel are starting to worry there may be trap being set, I think the US suspects this as well
 
Ducado said:
They are meant to be

The big problem is that Israel had disproportionate response as their go to weapon, and to be fair it worked in some circumstances, but enemies lean and adapt

I honestly believe there is a much bigger game going on here, as Hamas knew what would happen, I think some in Israel are starting to worry there may be trap being set, I think the US suspects this as well
Click to expand...

The trap looks as though its been sprung already, to be honest.
We're all,mainly focusing on Israel using the sledgehammer approach to exact revenge.
The Israeli victims pushed to the back of people's minds,replaced by Palestinian victims.

Madness.
 
Apparently there is a massive concern in Arab capitals that the real aim is to push the population out, and annex the land and just brazen the outrage out

I doubt in the cold light of day they would get away with it, but it’s a major concern, personally I think it would be a disastrous move for the world in general
 
BringBackSwales said:
Personally I dont see how governments can indiscriminately bomb civilian housing, hospitals, schools, children. Hamas terrorists are vile scum but the blanket bombing of densely packed civilian areas, as well as deprivation of food, water, electricity and shelter isn’t how governments should behave, is it? What a dogs bollocks of a mess
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Yep, it's a mess. Historically, battles were fought on a battlefield, often with hugely differing manpower and weaponry. Hamas though are using their own people as human shields so we are in a whole different ballgame. For me, and I know this is tough as fuck, but the Palestinian people have to get themselves a proper government with as you call it "high moral standards". They have to rebel against Hamas not Israel. Once you have a reasonably decent government then you can negotiate a two state solution in good faith. i.e. both sides could live without the threat of massacres.
 
Ducado said:
They are meant to be

The big problem is that Israel had disproportionate response as their go to weapon, and to be fair it worked in some circumstances, but enemies lean and adapt

I honestly believe there is a much bigger game going on here, as Hamas knew what would happen, I think some in Israel are starting to worry there may be trap being set, I think the US suspects this as well
Click to expand...
I'm almost certain there will be many traps set
 
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