Middle East Conflict

BlueAnorak said:
It really isn't difficult.
French media sites are available for perusal via Google search and they do provide translations.
One of the victims was actually British just after a Palestinian demo broke up.
www.lbc.co.uk

Female British police officer, 23, 'raped at the base of the Eiffel Tower by knife-wielding predator' | LBC

A female British police officer has claimed she was raped while at the bottom of the Eiffel Tower.
www.lbc.co.uk www.lbc.co.uk
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Looking at a few reports of this, there is no mention at all of a link to the demonstrations. Not even from the daily mail, who would love to run with that story
 
The world will always stand against terrorism.

Because it’s Palestinian terrorists we are dealing with, no right minded world leader is going to suddenly change tune.

I’ve no doubt and we have heard calls for restraint and for humanitarian aid to be allowed through from nearly all of them but that doesn’t mean you can’t be 100% behind Israel’s right to defend itself and to wipe out its enemy in Hamas.
 
blueinsa said:
The world will always stand against terrorism.

Because it’s Palestinian terrorists we are dealing with, no right minded world leader is going to suddenly change tune.

I’ve no doubt and we have heard calls for restraint and for humanitarian aid to be allowed through from nearly all of them but that doesn’t mean you can’t be 100% behind Israel’s right to defend itself and to wipe out its enemy in Hamas.
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Standing behind Israel means recognising Israel's right to exist, something Israel's enemies do not.
It is also not an endorsement of the brutal tactics being deployed in Gaza right now as the result of the actions of a vengeful state. Nor is it an abandonment of the priciples of the Palestinian cause.

There are those who don't just show and voice their anger towards Israel's actions against Palestinians, but they are angry at the existance of Israel itself. World leaders do NOT side with these people, which is all Sunak, Biden and others have stated this past week. Unlike Hamas, Israel's leaders will listen and have listened to other world leaders, regarding aid and the severity of their vengeance campaign in Gaza. "Don't make the same mistakes we did after 9/11" is very succinct. Break up the fighting, start the talking,

Yes, there will still be anger on both sides who still want retribution, but that doesn't achieve anything except a continued cycle, one that must be broken. Anyone who thinks Hamas are helping the situation are fools and no world leader of any respected nation is going to throw their lot it with them regarding this conflict. People who want this conflict to continue, imho, want to do so because they want Israel gone or demonised in the eyes of the world. Peace between Israel and Palestine means Israel continues to exist, and enemies of Israel don't want that eventuality.
 
cleavers said:
We didn't vote against, we abstained, as is our (countries) right, and it wasn't just about a "ceasfire" it was a whole lot of other stuff as well.
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We didn't. We were one of four countries, including the US, that voted against the ceasefire.
www.ummid.com

US, UK, France and Japan vote against UNSC Resolution on Gaza Ceasefire

The United States, United Kingdom, France and Japan Monday October 16, 2023 voted against a resolution at the United Nations Security Council (UNSC) calling for “Immediate Humanitarian Ceasefire in Israel-Palestine Crisis”.
www.ummid.com www.ummid.com
 
The blue phantom said:
Really. Well this person is certainly not with them, I'm talking about their murdering spree here too. As Rishi keeps saying Israel have a right to defend themselves which seems to include slaughtering a thousand Palestinian children up to now.
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99% of our population are most certainly not on board with the continued slaughter of Palestinian civilians, I completely agree with you, it’s fucking disgusting
 
oldius said:
We didn't. We were one of four countries, including the US, that voted against the ceasefire.
www.ummid.com

US, UK, France and Japan vote against UNSC Resolution on Gaza Ceasefire

The United States, United Kingdom, France and Japan Monday October 16, 2023 voted against a resolution at the United Nations Security Council (UNSC) calling for “Immediate Humanitarian Ceasefire in Israel-Palestine Crisis”.
www.ummid.com www.ummid.com
Click to expand...
We abstained, Which tbh is no fuckin different than as you say voting against a ceasefire, especially knowing the Yanks had voted Yes.
 
Metal Biker said:
Standing behind Israel means recognising Israel's right to exist, something Israel's enemies do not.
It is also not an endorsement of the brutal tactics being deployed in Gaza right now as the result of the actions of a vengeful state. Nor is it an abandonment of the priciples of the Palestinian cause.

There are those who don't just show and voice their anger towards Israel's actions against Palestinians, but they are angry at the existance of Israel itself. World leaders do NOT side with these people, which is all Sunak, Biden and others have stated this past week. Unlike Hamas, Israel's leaders will listen and have listened to other world leaders, regarding aid and the severity of their vengeance campaign in Gaza. "Don't make the same mistakes we did after 9/11" is very succinct. Break up the fighting, start the talking,

Yes, there will still be anger on both sides who still want retribution, but that doesn't achieve anything except a continued cycle, one that must be broken. Anyone who thinks Hamas are helping the situation are fools and no world leader of any respected nation is going to throw their lot it with them regarding this conflict. People who want this conflict to continue, imho, want to do so because they want Israel gone or demonised in the eyes of the world. Peace between Israel and Palestine means Israel continues to exist, and enemies of Israel don't want that eventuality.
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On both sides, there are members who do not want the other 'side' to exist. This, as you say, will require immense diplomacy, and both sides have members who want the other to be demonised in the eyes of the world. That is far easier to achieve when a terrorist label is attached, rather than a state label, especially when one can call upon one of the worst atrocities in history as justification for protection at all costs. The complexities of this are immense, but we have to have people on both sides of the table who will recognise the right of both states to exist, and will uphold peace, entirely.
 
oldius said:
Standing with Israel? Absolutely not. The people of Israel, yes. The people of Palestine, yes. Hamas, absolutely not.

Any diplomat worth anything will not be making a statement such as that, at this time.
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It depends on how you want to intepret what "Stand with Israel" means. The existance of the state, yes. The people of Israel, yes. The actions of the IDF currently in Gaza, no. I believe it means the former. Those who hate Israel would think it means an endorsement of the bombing campaign in Gaza, and i'm fairly certain no world leader is advocating that sort of statement.
 
Metal Biker said:
It depends on how you want to intepret what "Stand with Israel" means. The existance of the state, yes. The people of Israel, yes. The actions of the IDF currently in Gaza, no. I believe it means the former. Those who hate Israel would think it means an endorsement of the bombing campaign in Gaza, and i'm fairly certain no world leader is advocating that sort of statement.
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He stated that the Palestinian people are also victims in this, but that part has been glossed over and as ever just the headline remains for people to froth from the gills at.
 
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