Middle East Conflict

Mr Kobayashi said:
For now yes. But Israel won't exist forever.
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The only way Israel ceases to exist is if the surrounding Arab states rise up against. However that could well be game over for everyone as nuclear war would probably ensure.
More likely scenario is the US and Israel keep Saudi, Jordan et al onside whilst continuing to suppress the Palestinians as has been the case for a long time.
 
robbieh said:
The only way Israel ceases to exist is if the surrounding Arab states rise up against. However that could well be game over for everyone as nuclear war would probably ensure.
More likely scenario is the US and Israel keep Saudi, Jordan et al onside whilst continuing to suppress the Palestinians as has been the case for a long time.
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Which is more likely with how they have behaved in this war. Turkey may also have a role to play.

And given that Israel spies on the UAE in developing Submarines, we know it has ambitions to be a dominant regional military power.

I believe that the superpowers would intervene to stop Israel using nuclear weapons. They also haven't ever publicly confirmed they have them. So whilst they have viable stocks it likely something that they can threaten the whole world with.

Demographic shift will end Israel. And it would be a net gain for stability and peace in the world.
 
mexico1970 said:
You're probably right, it might even be called a greater Israel, who knows.
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Britain is made up of 3 Celtic nations and 1 saxon/Norman. Arabs and Jew are both semitic as apparently were the Phoenicians.
I wonder if the Palestinians and Jews are genetically more similar than say the Scots and the English. And if they are maybe in 200 years there'll be a Greater Levant which contains 3 countries Israel, Palestine and Lebanon. All doing business together successfully putting the past behind them.
 
robbieh said:
Britain is made up of 3 Celtic nations and 1 saxon/Norman. Arabs and Jew are both semitic as apparently were the Phoenicians.
I wonder if the Palestinians and Jews are genetically more similar than say the Scots and the English. And if they are maybe in 200 years there'll be a Greater Levant which contains 3 countries Israel, Palestine and Lebanon. All doing business together successfully putting the past behind them.
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Between Judaism and Islam I doubt it mate, but we can hope.
 
KPXBLN said:
Haaretz published an analysis by an Israeli academic about a week ago saying that 61% of the deaths in Gaza have been civilians, a higher percentage, they say, than the average figure for all wars in the 20th century, and considerably higher than the figure for Israeli wars in Gaza between 2012 and 2022, which averaged 40% civilian casualties. I'd hardly describe their previous wars as 'humane' but the dramatic escalation in violence against civilians is striking and needs explanation.

It might be the case that their escalating violence will finally force major world powers (especially the US) to stop funding and arming them, but you can hardly say this is the deliberate strategy of Netanyahu et al, more just a (possible) outcome of them finally going too far.
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KPXBLN said:
Get the feeling you've put me on mute for some reason, but in case you haven't - I think you're right that this is (part of) the statement they are making. However, if they wanted the people in Gaza to conclude there was a better alternative they might be, for example, making sure to work with the PA in the West Bank, preventing settler violence, putting a stop to evictions in East Jerusalem, ending new settlement construction, and so on. I.e. letting the people in Gaza know that they would get something out of peace.
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I don't have anyone on Ignore, though in this thread there are a few candidates (not including yourself though). The problem is that I have a life and a very demanding full time job. Seemingly unlike many posting in here, who seem to spend all their waking hours either looking for videos that confirm their prejudices or posting the same thing ad nauseam in this thread.

I'm also, while very critical of the Israeli government, not obsessed by Israel's existence and actions. Unlike some in here.

Nor am I a latent antisemite. Unlike some in here.

Hope that answers your question.
 
mexico1970 said:
That is quite frankly an appalling video and whoever that staffer is they need to be sorted, but everyone knew Israel has always interfered with our politics haven't we?

The next video shows a Hamas leader calling for the death of Israel, not just the occupied lands but the actual removal of it, we are never going to solve it or agree to solve it IMHO.

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It’s horrendous with atrocities and corruption led by Hamas and the Israeli Government. RIP the 3 hostages.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
I don't have anyone on Ignore, though in this thread there are a few candidates (not including yourself though). The problem is that I have a life and a very demanding full time job. Seemingly unlike many posting in here, who seem to spend all their waking hours either looking for videos that confirm their prejudices or posting the same thing ad nauseam in this thread.

I'm also, while very critical of the Israeli government, not obsessed by Israel's existence and actions. Unlike some in here.

Nor am I a latent antisemite. Unlike some in here.

Hope that answers your question.
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I don’t think I asked you a question. I just tried to respond to a couple of your comments, which to me are worth responding to. I tend not to agree with you overall, but you make interesting comments and engage in good faith which isn’t true of everyone - a comment which isn’t directed at any ‘side’.
 
The Future’s Blue! said:
I am neither side and have not seen what you state. This is about the rights and wrongs of what we are seeing on a daily basis. Are you trying to close people down?

Unless the Mod’s have deleted a load of stuff, any chance it could be confirmed?
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If you check the agreed IHRA definition of antisemitism there’s a few posters that blatantly meet that definition with some of their comments. Obviously they don’t agree with the definition but that’s not enough to make their comments not antisemitic unless someone comes up with an alternative definition that is widely agreed.
 
west didsblue said:
If you check the agreed IHRA definition of antisemitism there’s a few posters that blatantly meet that definition with some of their comments. Obviously they don’t agree with the definition but that’s not enough to make their comments not antisemitic unless someone comes up with an alternative definition that is widely agreed.
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Antisemites disagree with a definition of antisemitism and tell Jews that they're imagining antisemitism. It wouldn't be allowed in any other context on this forum and proves (if it ever needed proving) that David Baddiel is right that "Jews Don't Count".

@Moderating Team There also seems to be a recurrence of videos being posted of dubious provenance. I thought you'd clamped down on this?
 
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Prestwich_Blue said:
Antisemites disagree with a definition of antisemitism and tell Jews that they're imagining antisemitism. It wouldn't be allowed in any other context on this forum and proves (if it ever needed proving) that David Baddie is right that "Jews Don't Count".
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Pretty much anybody who is an antizionist is labelled as an antisemite, so it kind of loses its zing when it’s being used to shut down discourse.

Of course this happens the other way too, but people don’t seem to care as much about being labelled islamophobic.

That care is equalising now though and that’s why there is this debate at what should be allowed and what shouldn’t.
 
west didsblue said:
If you check the agreed IHRA definition of antisemitism there’s a few posters that blatantly meet that definition with some of their comments. Obviously they don’t agree with the definition but that’s not enough to make their comments not antisemitic unless someone comes up with an alternative definition that is widely agreed.
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I suspect you're including the "examples" in the "definition". The preamble makes plain how much effort went into agreeing the definition, but then the examples were tacked on, and it was inevitably going to be contentious to link a definition of antisemitism to the policy of the Israeli state.

Take "Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor." I may misunderstand the intent behind that, but how is the concept of a "Jewish state" not an endeavour based on race? (That's without the current situation where all Israelis are equal but some are more equal than others.) But is that different from Kurds wanting a Kurdish state? Or "England for the English"? Maybe not, but Israel was of course based on endeavouring to create a Jewish state.

In "The Jewish state" Herzl seems to think Anti-Semitism got worse when Jews were emancipated as people didn't like Jews entering professions from which they'd previosusly been excluded. And if Jews didn't join the Zionist project, either because they wanted to assimilate where they are or just didn't agree with founding a new Jewish state, then if not actually Anti-Semitic they were partially causing Anti-Semitism. And that puts a question mark over another example of AS, to say that Jews (any Jew?) are more loyal to Israel than the "nationality".
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
Pretty much anybody who is an antizionist is labelled as an antisemite, so it kind of loses its zing when it’s being used to shut down discourse.

Of course this happens the other way too, but people don’t seem to care as much about being labelled islamophobic.

That care is equalising now though and that’s why there is this debate at what should be allowed and what shouldn’t.
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The fact is that they haven't even been honest in their posts about the IHRA. It's disputed by many Jewish academics and organisations, including Israeli human rights organisations.

Which tells you all you need to know about them. Two liberal apologists for racial supremacy.
 
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