Middle East Conflict

Postman Pep said:
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On point. Using Hamas as a narrative is a deflection mechanism. I'm seeing now many 'Show Ignored Content' hyperlinks and I'm not mithered to view, as it's either about propaganda, about anti-Zionist are also pro-Hamas, about pro-Palestinians are also pro-Hamas diversion.

Everyone can condemn Hamas if they so wish. Hamas and Palestine are not mutually exclusive.

  • Hamas was formed in 1987.
  • Israel has been killing civilians since 1947.
  • Between 1947 and 1987 over 50,000 civilians were killed by the Israel Force.
  • Of the 50,000 killed, more than 15,000 was the during the Nakba of 70 massacres.
  • During the Nakba more than 530 Palestinian towns and villages were pillaged and destroyed, and in total more than 770 villages were occupied and colonised by Israel.
  • Today Israel blames Hamas.
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west didsblue said:
But you agreed wholeheartedly with someone who said that anyone who doesn’t condemn the IDF makes you sick? If you can’t see the hypocrisy I can’t help you.
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You understand that a person can condemn something without having to include that condemnation in every post the person makes, right? An opinion doesn't cease to exist if it isn't posted, and a previously posted opinion isn't invalidated by a failure to post it every time.

I find a lack of willingness to condemn the acts of the Israeli state sickening. I also find a lack of willingness to condemn the Hamas attack on Israel sickening, though the attack on Israel is significantly smaller in scale and impact. I also don't expect a person who comments on the condemnation of one to have to qualify their position by posting a condemnation of the other at the same time. They are separate things that can be discussed separately, you do understand that?

No, you won't accept that because it doesn't allow you to try to stifle debate by shouting people down with accusations or implications of Hamas support. Speaking of things I find sickening, this behaviour of yours is one of them.
 
bluethrunthru said:
Annexing the Gaza Strip was always the plan - they just needed an excuse to start in. Netanyahu is facing so much shit at home I'd guess we were nearing the point when a Palestinian running over an Israeli's dog by accedent would have been taken as excuse enough to start it
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I said that after a week of this conflict. If you look at what was happening in Israel, what Israel knew about the attack, what has been happening in the WB, it is very difficult to see any plan other than drive Palestinians from the WB into Jordan, drive them out of Gaza into Egypt or wherever and then formally annex the two occupied territories with a much reduced Palestinian population. There is a word (in fact three words) for that that people get sensitive about because Israel is a democracy, because we should feel guilty for what has happened to the Jewish people worldwide for centuries (I don't, horrible though it has been) and because we are expected to believe in the west that the Israelis are the good guys.

None of that holds much water any more. The only remaining question for me is whether Netanyahu allowed the October attack to happen (I would hope on an expected much smaller scale than actually happened) to save his own skin, his political career and his place in the history of Israel.

As for the US, they either know all this, or they are being played like a two-bit fiddle. Jury out.

Or you may think all of that is bollocks, but then put together another convincing argument for me as to what has happened in Gaza and the WB, what is happening in Gaza and the WB, the quiet parts that have been said out loud, and the parts that are now being said out loud, quiet part or not?
 
Tim of the Oak said:
The Deputy Head of Hamas has been killed in an explosion in the Lebanon. What a shame!

Sort of indicates that the Hamas leadership could have been taken out in more targeted attacks though.
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I wonder about the wisdom of that strategically though. From what I have heard Hezbollah are better trained and equipped than Hamas and the Israeli's could well be agitating them and Lebanon with that strike.

The Israeli ethnic cleansing mission seems to be an East West campaign that has pivoted South. They could have opened their Northern flank of the East West movement then their rear after the Southerly pivot to two new enemies just looking for a weakness to launch an attack.
 
bluethrunthru said:
I wonder about the wisdom of that strategically though. From what I have heard Hezbollah are better trained and equipped than Hamas and the Israeli's could well be agitating them and Lebanon with that strike.

The Israeli ethnic cleansing mission seems to be an East West campaign that has pivoted South. They could have opened their Northern flank of the East West movement then their rear after the Southerly pivot to two new enemies just looking for a weakness to launch an attack.
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It was Hamas personnel that were attacked. Hamas shouldn't have attacked Isreal if their leaders didn't want to become an IDF priority target.
It's a war, it happens.
 


The public line of the American government seems to be that statements from high-ranking members of the Israeli government do not, in fact, represent the views of the Israeli government, for some reason or another.
 
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BlueAnorak said:
It was Hamas personnel that were attacked. Hamas shouldn't have attacked Isreal if their leaders didn't want to become an IDF priority target.
It's a war, it happens.
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It's nothing to do with it being a war or not, it's a perfectly legitimate and morally acceptable response to the October attack. What is happening in Gaza isn't.

And yes, of course Lebanon was attacked. Your point should be if Lebanon doesn't want to be attacked, it shouldn't be welcoming Hamas leadership. Forget your obsession with war and try to be objective.
 
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bluethrunthru said:
I wonder about the wisdom of that strategically though. From what I have heard Hezbollah are better trained and equipped than Hamas and the Israeli's could well be agitating them and Lebanon with that strike.

The Israeli ethnic cleansing mission seems to be an East West campaign that has pivoted South. They could have opened their Northern flank of the East West movement then their rear after the Southerly pivot to two new enemies just looking for a weakness to launch an attack.
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Part of the Israeli Government strategy is to get the United States more deeply embroiled in the conflict. Beyond that I don’t really know.

The Hamas terrorists were legitimate targets. If the conflict spreads, it won’t be a big surprise.
 
Eylon Levy
Israeli government spokesman, London born and Brit bred

  • On the killing of the 3 Israeli hostages
    He publicly announced, as Israeli spokesman, that it was a mistake. No public apology.

  • On the killing of at least 68 Palestinians end of December, more than half of which women and children, on one refugee camp
    He publicly announced, as Israeli spokesman, that the deaths was a mistake because of the use of an "incorrect munition". No public apology.

  • 7 days ago
    He publicly announced, as Israeli spokesman, that UN is criminally complicit.

  • Today
    He publicly announced, as Israeli spokesman, that South Africa is criminally complicit.
 
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