Middle East Conflict

cucumberman said:
Take off your zionist tinted glasses for a minute.

No one here is not condemning Hamas atrocities on the 7th October. That day is atrocious and is undoubtedly a war crime. 1 baby was killed (Mila Cohen) and that is one too many babies. More than 700 civilians were killed in gruesome manner. Many of the cars were bombed and flattened with helicopters, and houses with bazookas and tanks. The whole event was absolutely horrifying and we empathise those killed and those taken as hostages. We, as hostage families, demand for a ceasefire, even if it meant exchange of prisoners.

The ICJ labelled 5 war criminals, 3 of whom are Hamas. They should be tried in the international court (though 2 of them have already been killed).

How about you?

Your multiple posts never once mentioned about the plight of Gazans and Palestinians, not after 7 October, not before 7 October. What are your thoughts of the Gazans?
What are your thoughts about the 2 Israel government reps who ICJ demands to be tried for war crimes?
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In response to your comments re. Gaza's and Palestinians - I have no issue whatsoever with palestinian Arabs having their own state, neither have jews or Israelis. BTW they never claimed to want a state until the creation of the state of Israel. Neither did they claim Jerusalem as their capital. Not even mentioned once in the koran. Speaks volumes. This is bc it's not about having a palestinian state at all.Thats just the narrative. It's about radical islam wanting the destruction of Israel......something they themselves admit and are sworn too. When Egypt and Jordan controlled the West Bank and Gaza, did they offer the ppl a Palestinian state ? They could have done then. A big fat NO... they did not is the answer. Thoughts on that please.
At the same time, radical islam wants to see the end of western values. This has nothing to do with whether I am a zionist or not. Millions of non zionists know very well what radical islam is doing and the chaos it is causing around the world. This ideology hates judeo christian civilisation and our culture and values. I love England. Do you see the pro Hamas "marchers for peace and ceasefire now" holding up banners saying ...Release the hostages ? Why not ? Im hating what these nutters are doing to this country in particular, but around the world generally. As for the ICJ.......where were they when America obliterated Afghanistan and killed 1,000s of civilians ? Where have they been since Assad has caused the death of nearing 1,000,000 civilians and still does ? Why have they not brought the Chinese leaders to court for their treatment of the muslim Uyghurs? Where is the ICJ for the 150,000 civilians killed in Yemen aswell as more than 200,000 dead as a result of ongoing famine during their war ? I could take you around the world with similar examples. I can only deduce one thing... No jews. No news.
 
inbetween said:
So this isn't a war for the Palestinians, it's a war against the existence of Israel, one that Israel is however plainly winning which you would rather wasn't the case?

I think you've sort of vacated any position to argue for solutions for peace. Continued war is only going to be a death sentence for the Palestinians because Israel will exist.

I believe that Israel should exist but I also believe that Palestine should exist. We must accept this reality and merge the two or accept the other reality which is a lot of people are going to die for either cause.
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inbetween said:
So this isn't a war for the Palestinians, it's a war against the existence of Israel, one that Israel is however plainly winning which you would rather wasn't the case?

I think you've sort of vacated any position to argue for solutions for peace. Continued war is only going to be a death sentence for the Palestinians because Israel will exist.

I believe that Israel should exist but I also believe that Palestine should exist. We must accept this reality and merge the two or accept the other reality which is a lot of people are going to die for either cause.
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You say Israel isn't going to surrender territory in exchange for peace. It just is not going to happen. I regard Israel as the the chief trouble you say. HOWEVER Israel gave back the Sinai after obliterating Egypt. Please name me 1 country that has "given back" land after victory.
 
Vic said:
Or in 1948 the Arabs understood what claims the Zionists would make, beyond what had been created by terrorism.
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The Jews were offered a much smaller part of mandated Palestine with poor quality land. They said YES we will take it. The Arabs were offered a better land deal and turned it down. They have been at war with Israel ever since. You can dress it up however you like.
 
Ethnic cleansing



"Sima Hasson, who represents the right wing group "The Mothers' Parade," addressed the crowd: "I'm going to say something that not everyone here is prepared to say, but I am, and I know a lot of you are: conquer, kick out, resettle."

Channel 4 with a video of Israelis stealing more palestinian land:



"There is some reliable polling that suggests that between 25-40% of the Israeli population here supports some sort of settlement inside gaza"
 
makinghistory said:
The Jews were offered a much smaller part of mandated Palestine with poor quality land. They said YES we will take it. The Arabs were offered a better land deal and turned it down. They have been at war with Israel ever since. You can dress it up however you like.
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This is a downright lie. There were twice as many Palestinians as Jews and yet Israel received 56 percent of the land.
 
The Fat el Hombre said:
Ethnic cleansing



"Sima Hasson, who represents the right wing group "The Mothers' Parade," addressed the crowd: "I'm going to say something that not everyone here is prepared to say, but I am, and I know a lot of you are: conquer, kick out, resettle."

Channel 4 with a video of Israelis stealing more palestinian land:



"There is some reliable polling that suggests that between 25-40% of the Israeli population here supports some sort of settlement inside gaza"
Click to expand...

Evil bastards. This is why the Pro Israeli folk won't talk about settlers and land theft.
 
The Fat el Hombre said:
Ethnic cleansing



"Sima Hasson, who represents the right wing group "The Mothers' Parade," addressed the crowd: "I'm going to say something that not everyone here is prepared to say, but I am, and I know a lot of you are: conquer, kick out, resettle."

Channel 4 with a video of Israelis stealing more palestinian land:



"There is some reliable polling that suggests that between 25-40% of the Israeli population here supports some sort of settlement inside gaza"
Click to expand...

This was always the case, and Hamas allowed them in.

Building on the blood of Palestinians, the world should not allow Israel to normalise this.
 
robbieh said:
This is a downright lie. There were twice as many Palestinians as Jews and yet Israel received 56 percent of the land.
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Im absolutely correct. Not only that, it was swamp land most of it. Arabs started flooding back when they could see the Jews were making the land flourish. No interest whatsoever before this. Almost 1 MILLION Arab jews were kicked out of their countries in 1948 and very many retuned to their historic homeland. Further, the last time this piece of land was governed with a capital was by the jews 2000 years ago before most were exiled by the romans. 600 years BEFORE Islam. SO please tell me why Islam make such claims on the land which has been colonised multiple times, the last colonisation being the Ottoman Empire before the British took control.
 
makinghistory said:
Im absolutely correct. Not only that, it was swamp land most of it. Arabs started flooding back when they could see the Jews were making the land flourish. No interest whatsoever before this. Almost 1 MILLION Arab jews were kicked out of their countries in 1948 and very many retuned to their historic homeland. Further, the last time this piece of land was governed with a capital was by the jews 2000 years ago before most were exiled by the romans. 600 years BEFORE Islam. SO please tell me why Islam make such claims on the land which has been colonised multiple times, the last colonisation being the Ottoman Empire before the British took control.
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Arabs flooding back. You really know nothing. In 1900 the Jewish population of Palestine was 8 percent.
And please don't mention 2000 years ago. Do you think the Anglo Saxon population of England should be replaced by returning Celts?
 
makinghistory said:
Im absolutely correct. Not only that, it was swamp land most of it. Arabs started flooding back when they could see the Jews were making the land flourish. No interest whatsoever before this. Almost 1 MILLION Arab jews were kicked out of their countries in 1948 and very many retuned to their historic homeland. Further, the last time this piece of land was governed with a capital was by the jews 2000 years ago before most were exiled by the romans. 600 years BEFORE Islam. SO please tell me why Islam make such claims on the land which has been colonised multiple times, the last colonisation being the Ottoman Empire before the British took control.
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No you are not.
en.m.wikipedia.org

United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
 
makinghistory said:
Im absolutely correct. Not only that, it was swamp land most of it. Arabs started flooding back when they could see the Jews were making the land flourish. No interest whatsoever before this. Almost 1 MILLION Arab jews were kicked out of their countries in 1948 and very many retuned to their historic homeland. Further, the last time this piece of land was governed with a capital was by the jews 2000 years ago before most were exiled by the romans. 600 years BEFORE Islam. SO please tell me why Islam make such claims on the land which has been colonised multiple times, the last colonisation being the Ottoman Empire before the British took control.
Click to expand...
"The last time this piece of land was governed with a capital was by the jews 2000 years ago" is a really odd formulation. I take it that it's part of Jewish exceptionalism, that their colonisation of the land was different to all the other colonisations before and since, including modern Zionist colonisation. Wouldn't having Jerusalem as a capital be trumped by having the Crusader "Kingdom of Jerusalem"?

Anyway, on this sort of argument the Jews took over a land flowing with milk and honey (not a swamp) in around 1270 BC, colonised it, were exiled from it in 586 BC by Babylon, then after the Persian and Greek empires, the Jews only had control for about 80 years before the Roman colonisation, then the Diaspora in 70 AD. So that's about 800 years of Jewish government. Excluding 200 years of the Crusades, it was under Islam from 636 - 1922. Over a thousand years. How's that for a claim to the land?
 
makinghistory said:
In response to your comments re. Gaza's and Palestinians - I have no issue whatsoever with palestinian Arabs having their own state, neither have jews or Israelis. BTW they never claimed to want a state until the creation of the state of Israel. Neither did they claim Jerusalem as their capital. Not even mentioned once in the koran. Speaks volumes. This is bc it's not about having a palestinian state at all.Thats just the narrative. It's about radical islam wanting the destruction of Israel......something they themselves admit and are sworn too. When Egypt and Jordan controlled the West Bank and Gaza, did they offer the ppl a Palestinian state ? They could have done then. A big fat NO... they did not is the answer. Thoughts on that please.
At the same time, radical islam wants to see the end of western values. This has nothing to do with whether I am a zionist or not. Millions of non zionists know very well what radical islam is doing and the chaos it is causing around the world. This ideology hates judeo christian civilisation and our culture and values. I love England. Do you see the pro Hamas "marchers for peace and ceasefire now" holding up banners saying ...Release the hostages ? Why not ? Im hating what these nutters are doing to this country in particular, but around the world generally. As for the ICJ.......where were they when America obliterated Afghanistan and killed 1,000s of civilians ? Where have they been since Assad has caused the death of nearing 1,000,000 civilians and still does ? Why have they not brought the Chinese leaders to court for their treatment of the muslim Uyghurs? Where is the ICJ for the 150,000 civilians killed in Yemen aswell as more than 200,000 dead as a result of ongoing famine during their war ? I could take you around the world with similar examples. I can only deduce one thing... No jews. No news.
Click to expand...

The first line of your post you had no issue.

Then after, issues galore.
 
makinghistory said:
If your family or children or baby son or daughter were one of those massacred on 7/10 OR kidnapped. Then you had rockets hurled at you immediately after for days on end. What would you expect the British government to do ? Left or centre of govt in Israel would be pursing the same path as Netanyahu. So its nonsense about a far right government. It's utter BS. Israel are fighting radical islam. Israel cannot afford to lose 1 war. I assure you now that you will get to know more about radical islam when they start their bombing campaigns on the streets of England. Sorry to be the barer of bad news.
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Good one. Spreading islamophobic hate and stereotypes. Israel are not fighting radical Islam, they're killing innocents and cleansing people of land they misguidedly believe is rightfully theirs. And if we were to ever come under attack, I'd expect the British government to formulate a plan that didn't include killing thousands of innocent children and women.

Don't even know why I'm indulging you because you're clearly down the rabbit hole.
 
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