Mikel yesterday

O O

OrigamiNinja

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10 Oct 2008
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Watching him yesterday just showed me what we miss in the centre of our midfield.

I honestly think as fans we have it completely wrong when we rate NDJ so highly. When we take a look at one attribute of what makes a top DM....breaking up the play then NDJ is up there with some of the very best but what other strings does he have to his bow?

We as fans say 'that is what he is there to do and then he is supposed to just play it simple' but look at Mikel yesterday, he does the breaking up of play attribute just as well as NDJ but when he wins the ball that is not the end of it as far as he is concerned, he has other attributes, he is able to drive forward with the ball or play an expansive pass. The same can be said of Essien or Fletcher at the rags.

I then think about the likes of Keane and Vieira at his peak and not only were they great tacklers and breakers up of play but they also had so much more to their game.

We as fans out our midfielders in to categories, we have NDJ the defensive midfielder, we have Barry the link up man and we have Ireland our creative, attacking midfielder and I think while we continue to have midfielders that you can categorise because they are only good at one thing we will continue to struggle! Every week even against the poor sides we fail to control the midfield to the extent of domination, it cant be coincidence!
 
I think this roll of 'Defensive Midfielder' is a huge load. Either be a defender or be a midfielder.

We need midfielders that go forward and chase back, thats it.
 
You might be onto something mate. De Jong has improved since we signed him though and we know from his Villa days that Barry can tackle AND pass when he's in the mood. In time I hope to see most of our players improve or start to produce consistently good form like the top players do. Ireland will never be a tackler but there's nothing wrong with having a top attacking midfielder who can't tackle ala Ronaldinho, Totti or Kaka.

NB: I do not consider Ireland to be in the same league as Ronaldinho, Totti or Kaka (yet ;] )
 
I've noticed this quite a few times, both Chelsea and the rags have midfielders who not only stop the opposition from making breaks but create chances for their forward players as well. Sadly DeJong doesn't seem to be able to do anything constructive with the ball once he's won it.

I rate big Nigel extremely high, but some of his all-round play is a bit lacking in certain areas.
 
said it before, will say it again....NDJ is a one trick pony, great destroyer but bugger all else.

if you are playing a side when it warrants having a DM in front of the back 4 and you are playing 5 in midfield then fine but other than that he would never start a game for me.

i got abuse at the time but will say it again, we should have bought Palacios - beggars belief that we did a deal to allow spuds to sign him, far better player than NDJ and would have been cheaper.
 
Rammy Blue said:
said it before, will say it again....NDJ is a one trick pony, great destroyer but bugger all else.

if you are playing a side when it warrants having a DM in front of the back 4 and you are playing 5 in midfield then fine but other than that he would never start a game for me.

i got abuse at the time but will say it again, we should have bought Palacios - beggars belief that we did a deal to allow spuds to sign him, far better player than NDJ and would have been cheaper.
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I said at the time we should have signed Palacios but lets be honest he's not played that well this season as he? He doesn't make many passes in the final 3rd and a bit like De Jong is excellent in the tackle but his use of the ball isn't that great. I've not got any issues with us playing De Jong but in a 4-4-2 he can't play alongside Barry because we lack creativity in the middle of the park and sit far too deep inviting pressure. Tomorrow if we're playing 4-4-2 then it's got to be SWP, De Jong, Ireland and Johnson. Of course you could play Barry instead of De Jong but i'm not convinced he's got the legs to be the holding midfielder in a 4-4-2 next to an attacking midfield as we'd have in Ireland
 
Mikel was constantly criticised for not passing forwards a while ago, haven't seen him for a while but if he's improved then he must be a very effective player now.

Obviously De Jong and Barry doesn't seem to be working as a pairing, but we didin't have many other options until now that Vieira is fit.

Personally though i'd like to see Barry, Vieira and Ireland as our midfield 3, or try it at least, all 3 have a bit of compsure on the ball and should be able to dominate the midfield against most teams, kind of negating the need for a pure defensive midfielder like De Jong.

SWP or Johnson to provide width, and Tevez and Ade up front.
 
Rammy Blue said:
said it before, will say it again....NDJ is a one trick pony, great destroyer but bugger all else.

if you are playing a side when it warrants having a DM in front of the back 4 and you are playing 5 in midfield then fine but other than that he would never start a game for me.

i got abuse at the time but will say it again, we should have bought Palacios - beggars belief that we did a deal to allow spuds to sign him, far better player than NDJ and would have been cheaper.
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I tend to agree with you although a couple of months ago I wouldn't have regarding Nige.He does not suit a 442 and as a partnership him and Barry just does not work as neither of them have the legs to push up and win the ball back and we end up getting dominated by some very average midfields.Then obviously they do not create anything or manage to support the strikers.Another partnership that does not work and has never looked like working all season is Ade and Tevez.So despite none of these four being bad players when four players in two key areas of the team do not compliment each other it is bound to effect performances and ultimately results.The worrying thing about Ade's return in the last two games is Tevez has suddenly gone quiet.
 
Rammy Blue said:
said it before, will say it again....NDJ is a one trick pony, great destroyer but bugger all else.

if you are playing a side when it warrants having a DM in front of the back 4 and you are playing 5 in midfield then fine but other than that he would never start a game for me.

i got abuse at the time but will say it again, we should have bought Palacios - beggars belief that we did a deal to allow spuds to sign him, far better player than NDJ and would have been cheaper.
Click to expand...

True
 
Rammy Blue said:
said it before, will say it again....NDJ is a one trick pony, great destroyer but bugger all else.

if you are playing a side when it warrants having a DM in front of the back 4 and you are playing 5 in midfield then fine but other than that he would never start a game for me.

i got abuse at the time but will say it again, we should have bought Palacios - beggars belief that we did a deal to allow spuds to sign him, far better player than NDJ and would have been cheaper.
Click to expand...

Totally agree! Purely on a defensive side I would take NDJ over Palacios but overall Palacios is a better player, ive seen driving forward runs from Palacios on a number of occasions and he also has a much wider range of passing than NDJ. Being a one trick pony is fine if your one trick is scoring goals, when your one trick is making sliding tackles it isnt enough!
 
Bit easier when you've got Lampard in front of you who ran his bollocks off and put himself all over the pitch. I don't think Mikel's that great a player and I don't even think he was that great yesterday

I think there's more to de Jong but he limits himself. He's very skilful and the fact he used to play on the wing at Ajax will tell you there's more to him than he's showing, but he thinks it's good enough to just sit back all game.
 
mikel plays in one of the strongest midfields in the world.
de jong doest.

Claude makelele was never a great passer of the ball, he doesnt rage forward with ball, becasue he isnt that type of player, a natural defensive mid. Anyone who has watched de jong for holland will see him much more involved in the middle. I think a vieira and de jong mix would work nicely with ireland sat infront of them, if he's prepared to work for it!

De jong has one of the highest succesful passing rates in a blue shirt, he wins ball and retains it. It's the players around him that need to able to push forward. one of the big problems is neither barry of ireland and capable of going forward with the ball at their feet.

If barry performed the standard required for a well paid footballer, then perhaps De jong could be rotated for harder games. But at the moment, he isnt the problem!

gattuso must be shit aswell!
 
It's a tough one with De Jong because he is immense at what he does but he could also do with working on his ball carrying from defense to attack. If you look at 2 of the best Defensive midfielders in the world (Y.Toure, Essien) they are also very strong at bringing the ball out of defence and launching an attack, De Jong doesn't have this imo. I think this is why the Mariga deal was so important to us as he was the bullish box to box midfielder we needed. There have been numerous times this season that we have needed somebody to grab the game by the scruff of the neck in midfield and get us going forward but it has very rarely happened and it is what we are missing imo. Vieira may add this but its a case of how well his legs will last in games if he takes this role on.
 
tommytheblue said:
mikel plays in one of the strongest midfields in the world.
de jong doest.
Claude makelele was never a great passer of the ball, he doesnt rage forward with ball, becasue he isnt that type of player, a natural defensive mid. Anyone who has watched de jong for holland will see him much more involved in the middle. I think a vieira and de jong mix would work nicely with ireland sat infront of them, if he's prepared to work for it!

De jong has one of the highest succesful passing rates in a blue shirt, he wins ball and retains it. It's the players around him that need to able to push forward. one of the big problems is neither barry of ireland and capable of going forward with the ball at their feet.

If barry performed the standard required for a well paid footballer, then perhaps De jong could be rotated for harder games. But at the moment, he isnt the problem!

gattuso must be shit aswell!
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The best players stand out no matter what team they play in. Stephen Hunt whilst not a great player stands out week in week out for Hull, he was also the best midfielder on the park on Saturday. Gary Cahill is in an awful Bolton team yet has stood out enough for Capello to pick him in England squads! So with this in mind how many times since he was signed has NDJ been the stand out performer? I would suggest no more than a handful!

This is not a NDJ bashing thread because I do like the guy, I am not saying he is a bad player but the point I am getting at is in recent weeks I have seen people on here stating that we have one of the best defensive midfielders in the World at our club. In response I am stating that if being the best defensive midfielder in the World simply involved breaking up the play and doing very little else then yes NDJ is definitely one of the best around but after watching Mikel and as much as I hate to say it Fletcher in recent weeks being a top class centre midfielder whether you are labelled a defensive one or not requires a lot more than being able to put in a crunching slide tackle!
 
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