Mr Bates vs the Post Office

gordondaviesmoustache said:
That’s why they should just quash all the convictions. Maybe a few who were at it will get wrongly acquitted, but seriously?

The computer system that all of them were convicted by was flawed. Therefore all those convictions are unsafe. End of.

That serves the best interests of justice.
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Totally agree. Further, how can you argue with the compensation claims?
You cannot quantify how much someone has lost when wrongly convicted so bite the bullet, do the right thing and pay out.
At the same time investigate and prosecute those responsible, including MP's. Otherwise faith in the British justice system will not be restored.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Read what I said again.

We have spoken before about your obsession with the ‘70s and ‘80s!

We weren’t in decline, or at least this precipitous decline in either of those decades. Our current decline was expressly my reference point.
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Yeah I get that, I guess I was trying to say that the establishment have been fucking us over for decades - it could be argued from time began no doubt. The big difference now is we are able to gain access to a lot of information and communicate it on a much wider scale and mobilise support to fight back.

I don't recall our discussion about the 70's and 80's though..... and me? Obessesed? Not me sir.... ;)
 
Blue Mist said:
Totally agree. Further, how can you argue with the compensation claims?
You cannot quantify how much someone has lost when wrongly convicted so bite the bullet, do the right thing and pay out.
At the same time investigate and prosecute those responsible, including MP's. Otherwise faith in the British justice system will not be restored.
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Many of these people were the best of us. Honest, hard working and community focused. Must have been devastating.

Agree, prosecutions should happen wherever possible and appropriate.
 
Mad Eyed Screamer said:
Yeah I get that, I guess I was trying to say that the establishment have been fucking us over for decades - it could be argued from time began no doubt. The big difference now is we are able to gain access to a lot of information and communicate it on a much wider scale and mobilise support to fight back.

I don't recall our discussion about the 70's and 80's though..... and me? Obessesed? Not me sir.... ;)
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It wasn’t so much of a discussion tbf!

Yes, they were all shameful too, but they were extraneous to the point I was making (or at least trying to!).

Think, if that’s not too crass, the Hillsborough one was the most egregious of those you cited. Because of the number of public authorities that failed. The others were more narrow failures.
 
Blue Mist said:
The cops allegedly started an investigation in 2020. I know we've had Covid but 4 years is rather a long time to do fuck all. I assume that they have been told to leave it. Why else has nothing been done in 4 years.
This latest bombshell puts the Government at the heart of a conspiracy to pervert the course of justice. I don't want MP's spending a fortune on an inquiry that stops every 3 months for a break. I want offices raided, files, documents, data sticks and anything else seized and I want people arrested.
And just to repeat. Yes, I believe the police are not taking action because they have been told not to.
For reference, I don't believe that Gareth Williams who worked for MI6 stepped fully into a Holdall, put it into a bath, padlocked it and then accidentally died. The coroner said he was unlawfully killed the police said it was an accident. I wonder who told them to say that.
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Rather than assume you could take the time to look at the facts, I've a feeling we've already had this discussion?
One of the two arrested was Gareth Jenkins, he's yet to give evidence to the inquiry and is a big key to understanding who knew what when. It makes sense for him to give his evidence before putting him on trial.
As for raids for evidence, there is no need all the documents/emails/data is in the public domain-dive in and fill your boots:-

Evidence | Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry

www.postofficehorizoninquiry.org.uk www.postofficehorizoninquiry.org.uk
The inquiry has to pause periodically to prepare for future hearings, it's dealing with 70 million documents if you think the police could do it faster your deluded.
The judicial inquiry will do a much better job of exposing the truth than the police ever could and it's doing it in an open transparent way.
Yes it's a slow process but this scandal covers 25 years, it was never going to be a quick process.
I don't disagree with your other concerns in general.
 
blueste41 said:
Rather than assume you could take the time to look at the facts, I've a feeling we've already had this discussion?
One of the two arrested was Gareth Jenkins, he's yet to give evidence to the inquiry and is a big key to understanding who knew what when. It makes sense for him to give his evidence before putting him on trial.
As for raids for evidence, there is no need all the documents/emails/data is in the public domain-dive in and fill your boots:-

Evidence | Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry

www.postofficehorizoninquiry.org.uk www.postofficehorizoninquiry.org.uk
The inquiry has to pause periodically to prepare for future hearings, it's dealing with 70 million documents if you think the police could do it faster your deluded.
The judicial inquiry will do a much better job of exposing the truth than the police ever could and it's doing it in an open transparent way.
Yes it's a slow process but this scandal covers 25 years, it was never going to be a quick process.
I don't disagree with your other concerns in general.
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When do you think the public inquiry will deliver a verdict because you seem to be saying nothing will be done until then. After the verdict the police will still have to gather evidence. Judging by how the PO are acting, they won't simply hand it over.
They will have to interview witnesses, arrest and interview people and prepare a file for the CPS. At this rate no one will be on trial before 2028. That is not acceptable.
I do not see what benefit Jenkins speaking to the inquiry has. They cannot punish him.
You say it has to pause to deal with new documents, the PO are still refusing/delaying to produce documents and the inquiry is unable to force them to do do.
It looks just like the government want it to look, important and grand but it's all show. It won't get Vennels any prison time and it won't get any MPs time either.
 
Blue Mist said:
When do you think the public inquiry will deliver a verdict because you seem to be saying nothing will be done until then. After the verdict the police will still have to gather evidence. Judging by how the PO are acting, they won't simply hand it over.
They will have to interview witnesses, arrest and interview people and prepare a file for the CPS. At this rate no one will be on trial before 2028. That is not acceptable.
I do not see what benefit Jenkins speaking to the inquiry has. They cannot punish him.
You say it has to pause to deal with new documents, the PO are still refusing/delaying to produce documents and the inquiry is unable to force them to do do.
It looks just like the government want it to look, important and grand but it's all show. It won't get Vennels any prison time and it won't get any MPs time either.
Click to expand...
-Findings not a verdict, end of the year possibly.
-The hearing will have done much of the evidence gathering and (as I keep saying) they already have the evidence.
-The hearing isn't about punishment it's about finding the truth-trust me that is what the SM want and is why they are at the hearing every day!
-The inquiry absolutely can and is forcing POl to hand over documents.
-The inquiry is acting independently of the government, it's anything but show-have you actually watched any of it? As far as SM are concerned it's the only good thing to ever happen!
 
blueste41 said:
-Findings not a verdict, end of the year possibly.
-The hearing will have done much of the evidence gathering and (as I keep saying) they already have the evidence.
-The hearing isn't about punishment it's about finding the truth-trust me that is what the SM want and is why they are at the hearing every day!
-The inquiry absolutely can and is forcing POl to hand over documents.
-The inquiry is acting independently of the government, it's anything but show-have you actually watched any of it? As far as SM are concerned it's the only good thing to ever happen!
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Yes I have watched quite a lot of the inquiry.
You state the hearing isn't about punishment - I agree with you and that is basically what is wrong with it. That is why I say it is just a show. It has no real power.
If a PO investigator is found guilty and imprisoned and its left at that, so what. He would just be a fall guy. The bosses and it now appears government ministers have ruined lives, they are the ones who need to be held to account.
I have followed your posts on here and though it doesn't seem it, I agree with them but I want the post masters paid out now, not in 5 years and I want them paid in full. Further I want complete overhaul of PO contracts and how they investigate discrepancies.
And most importantly I want those that have lied and perverted the course of justice to face trial.
 
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