Netanyahu Speech

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Hamann Pineapple, 3 Mar 2015.

  1. nobody can eat fifty eggs

    nobody can eat fifty eggs

    Joined:
    9 Sep 2011
    Messages:
    4,677
    You don't half talk some biased shit! You believe (unlike many, many other Jews) that because of your biblical and historical beliefs that Palestine is the Jews rightful land.

    You want to remember who the indigenous people are and that's the Palestinians not the Israelis, who were "given" their state by Britain who indeed had no right to give part of someoene else's country away in the first place!

    Against what you say, the settlers did consist largely of American and Northern European Jews and the settlements have expanded illegally by bulldozing more and more of the Palestinians rightful land, breaking all international laws and illegally occupying it.

    You are letting you're bias get in the way of the facts of the situation and to drag Pakistan into your argument is laughable.

    I tend to respect these orthodox Jewish people who are against Zionism and trust their God to protect them and not some apartheid racist political ideology:

    <a class="postlink" href="http://www.nkusa.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.nkusa.org/</a>
     
  2. CelesteItis

    CelesteItis

    Joined:
    12 May 2012
    Messages:
    1,796
    Location:
    Where my tryin' ain't done no good
    Very interesting link, sir. Not that the hasbara agenda will let people know.
     
  3. EalingBlue2

    EalingBlue2

    Joined:
    7 Aug 2007
    Messages:
    5,571
    Honestly I think it is the time the world did what we do with our kids, if they can't share toys you take the toys away until they can. I have great sympathy for both sides to be honest and I can understand both sides issues. On one side you have a people living in horrific conditions , being dominated by a military force way beyond their means, having land stolen day in day out and seeing their kids die from military attack and who experience the worst of the world.

    On the other side you have a country whose people have been oppressed and murdered throughout history in a scale no other people can understand, who are surrounded by hundreds of millions of people many of who want them dead and their country confined to history and who daily experience a threat against innocent people from an enemy who wants them dead.

    In short until the Muslim world truly accepts Israel and the rest of the world supports both sides there is no hope. To blanket condemn Israel or the Palestinians is wrong
     
  4. that's fair enough, but whilst Israelis continue to elect people like Netanyahu I won't have much sympathy, they have the electoral and democratic power to drive change and embrace a 2 state solution, yet refuse to do so, instead electing someone who deserves to be tucked up in the Hague.
     
  5. EalingBlue2

    EalingBlue2

    Joined:
    7 Aug 2007
    Messages:
    5,571
    I agree I despise him but equally I despise Hamas and I despise some of the governments around Israel who wish Israel exterminated. Two wrongs don't make a right and until both sides keep justifying abhorrent acts because of what the other side did it won't change.

    It is time a lot of Americans, Europeans and Middle Eastern people got off their feckin high horses and did something for the kids of Palestine, Israel and the Middle East and forced both sides to compromise and to sort it out.
     
  6. nobody can eat fifty eggs

    nobody can eat fifty eggs

    Joined:
    9 Sep 2011
    Messages:
    4,677
    I echo your sentiments in the main but there's not much chance of our government or any other western government doing little or anything for the Palestinian cause when there's so much influence on them by the Israeli government.

    Cameron and the 80% of his party who are members of the Conservatives Friends of Israel wouldn't would they?

    <a class="postlink" href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/9740044/The-cowardice-at-the-heart-of-our-relationship-with-Israel.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... srael.html</a>
     
  7. Prestwich_Blue

    Prestwich_Blue

    Joined:
    26 Jan 2006
    Messages:
    48,759
    Location:
    Wherever I lay my hat that's my home
    Do you have two brain cells to rub together? Yet again you demonstrate your ability to "debate" based on facts you barely understand, if you understand them at all. It's plainly obvious when you cut and paste stuff as what you paste is so far removed from your self-penned, witless ramblings.

    First fact: Most of the archaeological evidence suggests that the Jews were the indigenous Canaanites, who converted to Judaism and that there was no exodus from Egypt or great conquest after 40 years in the desert. A Jewish state had existed in that area up to the first century AD, when the Romans brutally suppressed a revolt there on a scale at least as bad as the Holocaust. That led to the dispersal of many of the survivors to Southern & then Western Europe but some stayed so there were many indigenous Jews as well, swelled by emigrants in the late 19th/early 20th century.

    Most of the land was owned by absentee landlords, who lived in places like Cairo & Damascus. It was mostly scrub and desert, with no sovereign or functioning government other than the colonial power.

    In 1948, it's well documented that all the surrounding Arab countries had designs on the territory so even if the Arab armies had won, it still wouldn't have been governed by those indigenous people. It would have been swallowed up by one or all of Egypt, Jordan and Syria.

    Second fact: Britain didn't give anything to anyone. It was granted a mandate over the territory by the League of Nations in 1923 and, when it couldn't resolve the problem of partition, handed it back to the UK in 1947. It was the UN General Council who voted in favour.

    Britain & France did give most of the rest of the Middle East away though, creating a series of artificial countries such as Iraq, Syria, Jordan & Saudi Arabia, that it gave to its favoured tribal chiefs regardless of any claim anyone else may have had.

    Third fact: In 1948, it was actually mainly Jewish refugees from places like Iran, Iraq, Yemen, Morocco, Egypt, Syria who were either forcibly expelled or put under severe pressure to leave. At least as many Jews as Palestinians were displaced (over 800,000) yet you rarely hear about them. The later settlers, on the West Bank, have been largely been Americans but the bulk of immigration was in the early years of the state and into Israel proper.

    Fourth fact: Pakistan, which was created at around the same time, had no history whatsoever and was created at the urging of Muslim politicians who wanted a a Muslim state separate from India. Read a book called Freedom At Midnight to get an understanding of the background to that and the horrendous slaughter that followed.

    Finally, you clearly have no understanding of Neturei Karta and holding them up as some sort of moral beacon is utterly laughable. They are ISIS-style religious zealots (without the violence obviously) who wholeheartedly believe that Israel is historically a Jewish state promised to them by god.

    The difference is that they believe it will only be restored by the coming of the Messiah and, when he does come, it will be a deeply religious state run on Biblical lines with the enemies of the Jews completely destroyed or subjugated. They object to the fact that the modern state was founded by men and not God. Based on that do you still think they're great?

    The vast majority of Jews believe in the concept Israel as a Jewish state. However I agree that many of them don't like what it's become under people like Netanyahu.
     
  8. nobody can eat fifty eggs

    nobody can eat fifty eggs

    Joined:
    9 Sep 2011
    Messages:
    4,677
    You can skirt round the issue all you like and put your own spin on things but the middle ground that we all should agree on is that the present day massacre, persecution and apartheid policy against the Palestinians must stop as soon as possible.
     
  9. urmston

    urmston

    Joined:
    2 Jul 2006
    Messages:
    5,153
    Location:
    not urmston
    Why should we all agree on anything?

    I can't say I'm too bothered about Israel's problem with any of its near neighbours. They seem to have matters under control, and I don't think Israel is to blame for the utterly hopeless mess that the rest of the middle east's people have got themselves into, with war, no democracy, poor human rights, religious intolerance and collapsed economies.
     
  10. sums you up.
     

Share This Page