New Brexit thread (with added poll)

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Ric, 3 Sep 2017.

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If the Brexit referendum was held now, how would you vote?

  1. Remain

    493 vote(s)
    59.6%
  2. Leave

    314 vote(s)
    38.0%
  3. Undecided

    20 vote(s)
    2.4%
  1. mcfc1632

    mcfc1632

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    In other Brexit news, McDonnell has at least been clear on acceptance of FOM:

    "...McDonnell also said his party would be willing to set aside voter demands for an immigration clampdown in order to secure a Brexit deal that keeps financial services companies in London.

    A Labour government would show “flexibility” on the issue of freedom of movement and would see that as the price of maintaining good access to the EU’s single market, he said."

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ject-u-k-brexit-plan-as-irish-impasse-deepens
     
  2. mcfc1632

    mcfc1632

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    The point of my recent posts is to demonstrate that indeed consideration is given to the pain that we will attract through leaving - the articles linked clearly set this out. So I would suggest that this demonstrates recognition that ".....the other side has valid points........".

    Exhibit 1:

    I sign-posted to this article:

    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/pirs.12334

    I stated that it was factual and suggested people skip to section 5, which commences with:

    "The figures reported here suggest three major points. First, the UK and its regions are far more vulnerable to trade‐related risks of Brexit than other EU member states and their regions. "

    I have yet to see any such balance shown by Remainers on here to the Leave side (this comment certainly not aimed at you). My own support of Leave was/is derived from consideration of a wide range of areas - some economic/trading - and others on wider areas of the development of the EU and the potential for the UK outside it.

    Specifically, whilst I would suggest that most Remainers on this thread tend to make their judgements on the past and prevailing conditions/situations across the EU, I and other Leave posters, tend to include the implications of what is potentially going to unfold - which is IMO more relevant to planning for the future.
     
    Last edited: 21 Apr 2018
  3. The Light Was Yellow Sir

    The Light Was Yellow Sir

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    Perfectly valid argument and absolutism is probably not helpful as nobody really knows. Some of us remember the catastrophic post war years and how things are much better since being in the EU. Coincidence? Possibly. We will find out in the next few years. Europe at peace with itself for just about the longest period in history. Will that continue? Given the possible surge in nationalism, who knows?
    What might happen though is proper scrutiny of government and government policy, once the ‘blame the EU’ rhetoric is confined to the dustbin. Even since 2016, we’ve had a massively underfunded health and social care system, an education system that still exists to benefit the well off, cuts to the police and armed forces, resulting in increased criminality and yet the news is still all about Brexit and those pesky foreigners.
    Finally, whilst there might be opportunities out there, trade has always been driven by proximity. The nearer you are, generally speaking, the more you’ll trade with people. I’m not anti opportunity I’m just not the sort to jump off a cliff, in the dark, and hope there’s an inflated landing mat at the bottom. Apparently, being worried for the future and you’re kids future makes you a moaning, negative loser who should just get over it, be quiet and stand quietly to one side as democracy has its way.
     
  4. dave_blue12

    dave_blue12

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    The Irish are gearing up to bypass the UK on the way to EU. Very bad news for British ports.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2018/0420/955953-dublin-port/

    As the job losses mount as Companies seek to safeguard their business with the EU I wonder who will get the blame ?

    It seems to me like many of the turkeys have actually voted for Christmas.

    Leavers, of course, call this ‘project fear’. What will they call it when it happens ? Some will say ‘a price worth paying’. I’m not sure those without jobs will agree.
     
  5. Ancient Citizen

    Ancient Citizen

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    Well seeing as the Irish export £18.2 billion to the UK, delivering those goods to Cherbourg first would be
    the basis of one of the best Irish jokes ever.
     
  6. dave_blue12

    dave_blue12

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    You seem very well informed. Could you tell us how much of that £18.2 billion is for onward shipping to continental Europe or the EU as I like to call it ?
     
  7. Ancient Citizen

    Ancient Citizen

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    http://www.worldstopexports.com/irelands-top-import-partners/

    Ireland has $135 billion dollars of worldwide trade, (my apologies, the 18.2 should be in dollars), of which the UK,
    its second largest market after the US, receives the above amount.
    Why would British ports lose this trade to Europe?
    Irish exports to Belgium, France etc; I would have thought would be sent to Antwerp or Cherbourg anyway.
     
  8. Damocles

    Damocles

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    There's a bad argument in here.

    Peace has broken out almost entirely across the human race. This is because economies have changed and are now intricately connected to each other.

    Almost every war in history was ultimately for resources. When it is cheaper for a nation to buy resources than to invade and own them, they do that instead.

    The EU had very little to do with European peace. Trading unions, which the EU is an example of, is why peace has lasted. That's not quite the same thing but easily confused.
     
  9. dave_blue12

    dave_blue12

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    €53.5 billion of Irish exports are sent via the UK ‘landbridge’ to mainland Europe. The bulk of Irish exports to Europe are sent this way as it is the quickest method.
    If the UK is not in the Customs Union this route to Europe will no longer be viable and hence why the Irish are gearing up for alternatives (see the link I posted earlier)
    This will have a massive impact on our ports but remove a whole bunch of lorries from our roads.
    Less lorries would be nice but the impact on jobs would not.
     
  10. Ancient Citizen

    Ancient Citizen

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    This depends on the agreements, yet to be finalised, between the UK and EU, as avoiding the UK landbridge
    would mean considerable extra costs for Irish exporters, I would imagine, although I wasn't aware that 53 .5 billion
    worth of trade crossed this way. If having to use an alternative method of transportation involves significant cost increases
    to satisfy paperwork, then would the Irish government be happy with that?
    It is not just Britain that would suffer, if costs of exports increase, together with a much larger timescale for delivery,
    Irish exporters would also not be happy about it.
     

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