New Brexit thread (with added poll)

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Ric, 3 Sep 2017.

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If the Brexit referendum was held now, how would you vote?

  1. Remain

    510 vote(s)
    58.9%
  2. Leave

    332 vote(s)
    38.3%
  3. Undecided

    24 vote(s)
    2.8%
  1. blueparrot

    blueparrot

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    Not assuming to answer for chippy, but I would bet a fair few saw us as a strong ally in some of the arguments inside the EU and were friendly and now feel let down by us bailing out.
     
  2. Chippy_boy

    Chippy_boy

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    First of all, I wouldn't call it a political union. It might be heading in that direction, but as a participant I'd be doing everything in my power to steer it in a different direction. Which brings me on to my second point, which is that we'd achieve success in steering it the way we want, by bullding alliances, not stomping around like stroppy teenagers, pissing everyone off and acting like we own the place. There's many nations in the EU who feel very much as we do, generally, and on specific subjects. Find areas of common agreement, consensus, work on building relationships and allegiances. We've done preciously little of that, and the offensive twat that is Farage yelling "Who are you, I've never heard of you" and other insults for years, has done us absolutely no favours whatsover.
     
  3. GortonBlue62

    GortonBlue62

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    At what point would you call it a political union then? Countries in the Euro zone have already ceded control of monetary policy (i.e. the ability to control their own interest rates) to the EU. The next step is when fiscal policy (tax and spending) is also under the control of the EU (Greece, Portugal, etc. recently).

    At that point what will be the point of a general election in a country that is a member of the Euro zone? There won't be one party promising to lower taxes and balance the budget and another advocating higher levels of tax and spending because these things will be decided in Brussels (Berlin more accurately). The electorate will be totally impotent. Should be interesting to see how this democratic deficit plays out across the continent over the next few years.

    When you have a democratic deficit you usually have extremism following hard on it's heels. In this country when the entire political establishment labelled anybody who proposed that there should be limits on immigration, as a bigot and a racist, we got UKIP, and a referendum and Brexit. I somehow doubt it will end so benignly on the continent.
     
  4. Chippy_boy

    Chippy_boy

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    Your whole argument is predicated upon an assumption that EU-wide increased federalisation including a full fiscal union is inevitable. I don't accept that. And in not accepting that, I don't accept your conclusions either.

    The UK has full control over its fiscal policies (with the exception of the rather sensible limits on deficit as a percentage of GDP, which btw we voted for). And there was no prospect whatsoever of us surrendering any of these powers to the EU, ever.
     
    Last edited: 13 Mar 2018
  5. ManCityX

    ManCityX

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    Lol! Brilliant!

     
  6. GortonBlue62

    GortonBlue62

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    The term 'ever closer union' is a euphemism for a European superstate (with full control of Fiscal policy). There's no conspiracy theory here; a country called Europe is coming into being. Problem is nobody asked the people of Europe and on the rare occasions any of their nation's constitutions required a vote (Ireland, France and the Netherlands on the Lisbon treaty for example) the 'incorrect' answers were ignored (twice in Ireland's case). Incidentally it was a fucking disgrace that the British people were never asked if they were comfortable about giving up a huge chunk of sovereignty over Lisbon. Thankfully the referendum finally gave us our say.

    (Of course this country was never going to cede control of fiscal policy or monetary policy to the EU. We're far too sensible)
     
  7. Chippy_boy

    Chippy_boy

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    Again, pure speculation on your part. I don't believe there will ever be a single European superstate. The real power lies with the sovereign governments of the member states, not in Brussels. And in the member states, there's no desire for a single superstate. The Germans, French, Italians, Spanish etc want it no more than we do. So it isn't happening.
     
  8. Vic

    Vic

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  9. blueinsa

    blueinsa

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    In a thread thats about to get pulled.
    Agree completely mate as do millions of people in this country and also around the EU.
     
  10. The Light Was Yellow Sir

    The Light Was Yellow Sir

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    Although I’m often espousing the remain view, it is purely in terms of economics. Being in the customs union but being out of Europe in all other respects would actually suit me very nicely.
    I suspect there are a lot more things leavers and remainers have in common but it’s not in the interest of the power crazy politicians (or the media, for some reason) to acknowledge that.
     

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