New CL Format Thoughts

Dippers and inter are now guaranteed a play-off spot, realistically 1 more win will guarantee them a top 8 spot too rendering their last few games pointless.

25th has 4 points, they can only max out at 13 points now so we need mathematically 6 points but likely 5 with the goal difference to guarantee a play off spot ourselves.

Depending on fixtures and results we could have as many as 20 spots guaranteed before the last gameweek so the whole idea of not having meaningless games could become an absolute joke.
 
ninjamonkey said:
Dippers and inter are now guaranteed a play-off spot, realistically 1 more win will guarantee them a top 8 spot too rendering their last few games pointless.

25th has 4 points, they can only max out at 13 points now so we need mathematically 6 points but likely 5 with the goal difference to guarantee a play off spot ourselves.

Depending on fixtures and results we could have as many as 20 spots guaranteed before the last gameweek so the whole idea of not having meaningless games could become an absolute joke.
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I think we should be ok, but you never know. In all the furore following the calamity of Tue night, the dropped points haven't really been mentioned. Could have come in handy.
 
ninjamonkey said:
Dippers and inter are now guaranteed a play-off spot, realistically 1 more win will guarantee them a top 8 spot too rendering their last few games pointless.

25th has 4 points, they can only max out at 13 points now so we need mathematically 6 points but likely 5 with the goal difference to guarantee a play off spot ourselves.

Depending on fixtures and results we could have as many as 20 spots guaranteed before the last gameweek so the whole idea of not having meaningless games could become an absolute joke.
Click to expand...

I see this entirely differently.

Liverpool/Inter/Barca/Dortmund will all try to win the league phase.

The clubs below them realistically will not guarantee their play of place before MD8.

A handful of clubs (ourselves included) are going to have to throw the kitchen sink at the top 8 because they'll definitely want to avoid a playoff.

Remember that finishing higher means playing a lower-placed team (e.g., 9th place will play 24th place, with the second leg at home).

There are still big clubs that will be twitching about whether they make the playoffs at all. PSG, Madrid Leipzig, Girona, and Shaktar are all flapping after five games! Madrid have to play Atalanta away next who are unbeaten.

Realistically, the only teams that will have nothing to play for in the last (definitely) 1 or (maybe) 2 games are Young Boys, Leipzig and Bratislava.

We'll know for certain come match day 8, but I think this format has made this phase of the competition far more entertaining.
 
Manchester33 said:
I see this entirely differently.

Liverpool/Inter/Barca/Dortmund will all try to win the league phase.

The clubs below them realistically will not guarantee their play of place before MD8.

A handful of clubs (ourselves included) are going to have to throw the kitchen sink at the top 8 because they'll definitely want to avoid a playoff.

Remember that finishing higher means playing a lower-placed team (e.g., 9th place will play 24th place, with the second leg at home).

There are still big clubs that will be twitching about whether they make the playoffs at all. PSG, Madrid Leipzig, Girona, and Shaktar are all flapping after five games! Madrid have to play Atalanta away next who are unbeaten.

Realistically, the only teams that will have nothing to play for in the last (definitely) 1 or (maybe) 2 games are Young Boys, Leipzig and Bratislava.

We'll know for certain come match day 8, but I think this format has made this phase of the competition far more entertaining.
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Yeah, I think for all the criticisms of the format the one thing that it does do is deliver at least one game per night that looks tasty enough from a television perspective and that there are going to be interesting games and moments until the final kick of the ball in the group stage.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
All a play off means in reality is that we’ll have to enter the knockout phase in an earlier round.
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That's true, but it's a simplified view. There are other things to consider, like:

- two extra games in a congested schedule
- the chance that we get knocked out before the RO16 (affecting revenue)
- it's better to finish higher and play a club like Zagreb rather than finishing lower and having to face Bayern/Atleti/Benfica etc

Our form is terrible right now. So I think many blues don't see us winning the Champions League and therefore don't really care if we get through or not. I think worse clubs (who've also been shite at this time of the year - like Chelsea in 2012) turned things around later in the season and get very far or even win the competition. Avoiding a play off, or avoiding a tough game in the play off might give us the breathing space to get through and win it.
 
Manchester33 said:
That's true, but it's a simplified view. There are other things to consider, like:

- two extra games in a congested schedule
- the chance that we get knocked out before the RO16 (affecting revenue)
- it's better to finish higher and play a club like Zagreb rather than finishing lower and having to face Bayern/Atleti/Benfica etc

Our form is terrible right now. So I think many blues don't see us winning the Champions League and therefore don't really care if we get through or not. I think worse clubs (who've also been shite at this time of the year - like Chelsea in 2012) turned things around later in the season and get very far or even win the competition. Avoiding a play off, or avoiding a tough game in the play off might give us the breathing space to get through and win it.
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100%. If we lose on Sunday I'm giving up on the league but there's not a single reason to give up on anything else. One player in January, a positive result in 115, and key players in squad going up a gear and going all out in the comp would be plenty to win it. There's as many previous winners from that model as there is the all-conquering winners. Madrid have built their whole mythology around that model.
 
ninjamonkey said:
Depending on fixtures and results we could have as many as 20 spots guaranteed before the last gameweek so the whole idea of not having meaningless games could become an absolute joke.
Click to expand...
They might be guaranteed but aren't the finishing positions important.
The higher up you are gives you a more favourable fixture in the play off round.
Big difference between 9th and 18th.
 
Xhavenjoe said:
They might be guaranteed but aren't the finishing positions important.
The higher up you are gives you a more favourable fixture in the play off round.
Big difference between 9th and 18th.
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In theory they are, In practice it's worthless as teams will never finish where you'd expect. Real Madrid are currently in the final qualifying spot and therefore statistically the weakest and most favourable tie, yet absolutely nobody is going to want to finish in the position that matches up against them. We're lower than sporting, Bayern are lower than debutants Brest, atletico madrid are lower than lille, finishing higher up could very well be a hindrance, it's a lottery and ultimately not worth expending energy on trying to better your odds.

Manchester33 said:
I see this entirely differently.

Liverpool/Inter/Barca/Dortmund will all try to win the league phase.

The clubs below them realistically will not guarantee their play of place before MD8.

A handful of clubs (ourselves included) are going to have to throw the kitchen sink at the top 8 because they'll definitely want to avoid a playoff.

Remember that finishing higher means playing a lower-placed team (e.g., 9th place will play 24th place, with the second leg at home).

There are still big clubs that will be twitching about whether they make the playoffs at all. PSG, Madrid Leipzig, Girona, and Shaktar are all flapping after five games! Madrid have to play Atalanta away next who are unbeaten.

Realistically, the only teams that will have nothing to play for in the last (definitely) 1 or (maybe) 2 games are Young Boys, Leipzig and Bratislava.

We'll know for certain come match day 8, but I think this format has made this phase of the competition far more entertaining.
Click to expand...

Why do you think we'll be desperate to avoid a play off? Sure nobody wants more games but it's not a terrible trade off at this point. It's 1 two legged game extra, we've got psg and juve away still to come, what we'd have to do to win all three of our remaining games to try finish top 8 (and even then it's far from a safe bet we even will make it into the top 8 with 3 wins) is going to be harder and more strenuous given our current form, fitness concerns and upcoming fixture schedule than taking a play off spot and playing against 1 side, potentially of a similar quality twice with 1 home game.

the play off option seems like a better, easier option to me right now and had we beat feyenoord leaving us needing just 1 more win, it would have been a no brainer to send eds teams to juve and psg, beat brugge and take the play offs in Feb as that's just swapping 2 tough games this next month for potentially easier games and 1 home game later in the season.

As you pointed out yourself, big teams are in positions they aren't expected to be, us included, they'll be no scramble to finish higher up for a more favourable draw in thr last games if the table is still as unpredictable as now when going by the current table, Villa in 9th would be playing real Madrid in 24th.
 
Manchester33 said:
I think this format is miles better!

So much happening throughout the table. Big glamorous fixtures most weeks and every club still has something to play for!
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I definitely like the variety of fixtures but there are far too many games, should still be 6 in the group stage.

To have 8 group games, and possibly 10 before the knockout rounds is complete overkill. We've had 5 game weeks now and still none of it really matters. As others have said we have been shit but there is no real consequence to that at all.
 
Wasnt planning to go to Paris but with the way things have developed - have sorted out my logistics.


On a slightly positive note - am also going to visit the Palace of Versaille.

24 euros for an all day pass.

billetterie.chateauversailles.fr

Visite Passport à VERSAILLES @ Château - Entrée A Pavillon Dufour

Une forte affluence est attendue ce week-end au château de Versailles. La réservation en ligne est obligatoire.
billetterie.chateauversailles.fr billetterie.chateauversailles.fr
 
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