Newcastle (H) Post Match Thread

[rnblade]

As long as we always score 1 more than the opposition in the PL , I’ll be happy with that.

 

[vin]

What is absolute nonsense is taking a previous seasons performance to decide whether a player should currently start.

Well he’s not gone shit in 4 months has he? You’re talking shite if you think Gundogan is the answer. Shits out of every 50/50 and has had 2 good games for us (Barca and Spurs). Ferna has carried us for years and is still good enough

 

[Shaelumstash]

Agree completely. I feel what's happened is he looked at the few games(4 at most) last season where the team struggled to break teams down and needed a last minute goal to win. He probably feels in those games the team struggled to get men in the box and relied to heavily on the wingers(sane/sterling) as well as de bruyne and silva to unlock the opposition so to counter that he's tried experimenting with a 2 up front formation. The problem is doing that has also opened a new set of problems that the team didn't have last season.

What you have this season and especially the past 2 games against wolves and newcastle(1st half) is a formation that is basically a 3-1-6. You have your 3 defenders with dinho ahead of them and then 6 attackers with mendy joining in as another attacker on the left hand side. what has happened as a result is that a lot of players keep taking eachothers spaces, there's no set pattern of play like last season with the links between de-bruyne/silva and sterling/sane that were developing. the likes of silva can't get the ball in the half-spaces, turn and have options of runners ahead of him instead you have players often coming deep and receiving the ball with their backs to goal especially the wingers as was the case yesterday. So its left up to an individual brilliance or a mistake by the opposition for a goal to come instead of any fluid style of play.

But that is just the attacking side, what this new formation has done is left the team unable to both press effectively to win the ball back when they lose it and also able to retain possession and sustain attacks. As a result the opposition seems to always have an avenue to exploit on the counter when they win the ball. The match against wolves became an open one as a result and the 1st half yesterday especially after their goal was the same case. Look at the difference once bernardo came in for jesus and became an extra man in midfield and mendy was tasked with just sitting back and offering support instead of joining the attack at every opportunity. Even though there was only 1 goal in it, I never felt like the team would concede during those last 30 minutes when the team reverted back to the 4-3-3. I can count 3 or 4 games at most last season where you got the open game of that 1st half. The only hope teams had of scoring or creating a chance in 99% of the games was either through a set-piece or a wonderstrike/mistake by the team. Most teams could barely string 2 passes together when they had it and were always camped in their box including even the likes of chelsea.

That was the pattern last season, two wide men stretching the pitch and making it as wide as possible meaning spaces could be found in the half spaces by the likes of silva and de-bruyne who could recieve the ball, turn and have runners ahead of them doing what they do best. The team was always on the top, probing and creating chances and never looking in danger of being countered or conceding due to the fullbacks tucking inside almost as extra midfielder, as a result you always felt it a matter of when not if the goal would come. So when those late goals happened it wasn't against the run of play or anything unusual but rather a deserved one for the sustained pressure. I feel the team loses that structure and discipline with this new system.

And for those arguing the team needs to reinvent itself as to not stagnate, that doesn't necessarily mean in a change of system but rather in a change of player profile/quality. The more competition with added quality the team has the more it will strive to get better not by changing a system that clearly worked and wasn't able to be figured out by any team in the premier league or europe outside of liverpool.

The greatest domestic teams of the modern era that went on to dominate their leagues for multiple seasons did so without needing to reinvent or change their system. Conte's juve stuck with a 3-5-2 formation throughout his time there and they dominated the league for 3 seasons, likewise the united team that won 3 titles in a row did so with a 4-4-2 formation. Nothing about each of those teams' systems changed. Which brings it to the main point, pep is clearly someone who is quite obsessive and sometimes tends to overthink things and this may be the case this season.

The formation and system didn't need any changes, it just needed more competition for places to keep the players on their toes. He even started the season against both chelsea and arsenal at the emirates with the same 4-3-3 formation/system of last season but just with different personnel and they didn't seem to struggle. In fact they barely got out of second gear in both games to win them comfortably and rarely looked like conceding. This tinkering these past 2 games has clearly unbalanced the side and its rhythm so why not just get back to what had just contributed to a record breaking season unheard of in this league. Yes I know its early but if the experimenting continues the next few games I'm afraid there may be some more dropped points against teams the team should be beating comfortably.

One of the most informed posts I’ve ever read on Bluemoon, I agree with every word.

Fingers crossed that like you and others have said, Pep has used these opening games to experiment. Essentially using them as a “free hit”.

To be fair, we were sensational against Huddersfield, I can definitely see that as a model we could adopt at home against parked buses.

But away at a very decent Wolves side, we got picked apart on the counter. And the 424 or whatever you want to call it against Newcastle just didn’t work. Too many bodies and not enough space / runners.

We did look fantastic against Chelsea and Arsenal in our usual 433, so I assume he’ll stick to that against decent teams.

I personally hope if he’s going to go gung ho at home, the system we played against Huddersfield is the one he opts for, and not the one against Newcastle.

Away from home, I think we have to be a little more solid. Control the game more. We were far too open against Wolves. We had the best away record in the history of English football last season. I think a big part of that is that we controlled games, we we set up to keep possession and not be countered. We pretty much played 433 in every away game, no matter the opposition. I hope we go back to that, teams can’t live with us.

 

[Mancini Manus Domini]

Well he’s not gone shit in 4 months has he? You’re talking shite if you think Gundogan is the answer. Shits out of every 50/50 and has had 2 good games for us (Barca and Spurs). Ferna has carried us for years and is still good enough

A lot of shit there Domkeefe.

For now Gundogon is a better answer than Fernandinho. In those 4 months you mention he went to a World Cup at the age of 33. For 5 to 10 games I think the guy needs a break from being a regular starter. If he comes back strong then fine he can become first choice again, depending on who's playing better.

 

[OB1]

One of the most informed posts I’ve ever read on Bluemoon, I agree with every word.

Fingers crossed that like you and others have said, Pep has used these opening games to experiment. Essentially using them as a “free hit”.

To be fair, we were sensational against Huddersfield, I can definitely see that as a model we could adopt at home against parked buses.

But away at a very decent Wolves side, we got picked apart on the counter. And the 424 or whatever you want to call it against Newcastle just didn’t work. Too many bodies and not enough space / runners.

We did look fantastic against Chelsea and Arsenal in our usual 433, so I assume he’ll stick to that against decent teams.

I personally hope if he’s going to go gung ho at home, the system we played against Huddersfield is the one he opts for, and not the one against Newcastle.

Away from home, I think we have to be a little more solid. Control the game more. We were far too open against Wolves. We had the best away record in the history of English football last season. I think a big part of that is that we controlled games, we we set up to keep possession and not be countered. We pretty much played 433 in every away game, no matter the opposition. I hope we go back to that, teams can’t live with us.

Considered opinions guys but you have to experiment at times to learn.

The game has become more sophisticated and therefore the chances of just sticking to one approach working are lower.

The core approach doesn't change anyway; it's the details. Tactical flexibility will be useful.

Also, on Saturday, you could argue Pep used one formation to get back in the lead and then changed to preserve the lead...

 

[King KdB of Belgium]

It is said that the art of a good team can play badly and still find a way to win the game. That was apt for Saturday's performance. We were slow all over the pitch. Pep needs tpo sot=rt it out before the game against the Liverpool thugs in a few weeks time.

 

[prestonibbo_mcfc]

It is said that the art of a good team can play badly and still find a way to win the game. That was apt for Saturday's performance. We were slow all over the pitch. Pep needs tpo sot=rt it out before the game against the Liverpool thugs in a few weeks time.

You need to concentrate on sorting your keyboard out ;-)

 

[supercity88]

One of the most informed posts I’ve ever read on Bluemoon, I agree with every word.

Fingers crossed that like you and others have said, Pep has used these opening games to experiment. Essentially using them as a “free hit”.

To be fair, we were sensational against Huddersfield, I can definitely see that as a model we could adopt at home against parked buses.

But away at a very decent Wolves side, we got picked apart on the counter. And the 424 or whatever you want to call it against Newcastle just didn’t work. Too many bodies and not enough space / runners.

We did look fantastic against Chelsea and Arsenal in our usual 433, so I assume he’ll stick to that against decent teams.

I personally hope if he’s going to go gung ho at home, the system we played against Huddersfield is the one he opts for, and not the one against Newcastle.

Away from home, I think we have to be a little more solid. Control the game more. We were far too open against Wolves. We had the best away record in the history of English football last season. I think a big part of that is that we controlled games, we we set up to keep possession and not be countered. We pretty much played 433 in every away game, no matter the opposition. I hope we go back to that, teams can’t live with us.

We took a while a few games to gel last season and after the world cup things are no different. Mahrez has been the main issue. He was bought for instant impact as he knows the league but hasn't performed yet.

We looked great against Chelsea, Arsenal and Huddersfield and have scraped through the last two bagging 4pts. The Everton draw last season was down to the ref as we battered them but we were poor at Bournemouth defensively and fought for the win.

The team needs rotating due to a lack of preseason which doesn't help. Plus we are without the best player in the league due to injury.

Positively, Ederson, Laporte, Otamendi, Ferny, Silva, Aguero, Jesus and Sterling all avoid Internationals. I wouldn't be surprised if Gomez and Trippier keep Walker out and Mendy isn't a cert to start. They can rest and keep building fitness to then attack the upcoming games.

Meanwhile the dippers have their whole squad off to Internationals other than Milner. They will burn out come the 2nd half of the season without doubt. We will start to hit our stride now and get De Bruyne back as the frequency of games becomes even more demanding.

 

[cleavers]

When Bernado came on and we switched back to a 433, we were suddenly more fluid, controlled the game and looked solid again.

Whilst that might have been simply because we went 433, I think it was more to do with Bernardo being very dynamic, and being all across the pitch trying to create something, his running and touch was sublime for 10 minutes. It might be a bit of both, but for me Bernardo was more the catalyst, and should have been on 20 minutes earlier for me, he also works defensively.

 

[Shaelumstash]

Whilst that might have been simply because we went 433, I think it was more to do with Bernardo being very dynamic, and being all across the pitch trying to create something, his running and touch was sublime for 10 minutes. It might be a bit of both, but for me Bernardo was more the catalyst, and should have been on 20 minutes earlier for me, he also works defensively.

Bernado did play very well and like you say, he came on and grafted and wanted the ball, which was a huge boost.

But he did come on in the middle which gave us an extra man in there straight away. Just the extra body meant we were less vulnerable to the counter, and everyone instinctively knew their role because it was such a familiar shape.