Next Manager after Pep

Keeper!

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Joined
21 Aug 2014
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11,620
What’s the criteria? Inheriting Barcelona 2 years after they’d won a European Cup, with key players from the Spain Euro 2008 team and a Messi who was naturally destined to be the best player in the world? Or winning default titles at Bayern while neutralising them Europe? Or winning a 3 titles in his 5 years here, in each of which he had the best squad in the league?

Where’s the evidence of superiority, that can’t be accredited to circumstance?

He doesn’t have a reference point of overachievement - the true barometer of greatness for a manager - like Ferguson did with Aberdeen or Klopp had with Dortmund and Liverpool.

You'd think he personally dragged the club up from Division 2 and won us our first Premier League title the way some on here deify him.




Yep. Winning means nothing if it’s inevitable - I’d rather have done it the Leicester way; an owner who wants to invest rather than monopolise, develop our own talent and win one title and cup in 5 years if it was achieved more organically than simply buying £1b of players to neutralise the competition.
You name is appropriate for your fan boy Ronaldo, it's going to be a very long, very slow and a very expensive goodbye, now f%%k off back to the cafe.
 

Keeper!

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Joined
21 Aug 2014
Messages
11,620
What’s the criteria? Inheriting Barcelona 2 years after they’d won a European Cup, with key players from the Spain Euro 2008 team and a Messi who was naturally destined to be the best player in the world? Or winning default titles at Bayern while neutralising them Europe? Or winning a 3 titles in his 5 years here, in each of which he had the best squad in the league?

Where’s the evidence of superiority, that can’t be accredited to circumstance?

He doesn’t have a reference point of overachievement - the true barometer of greatness for a manager - like Ferguson did with Aberdeen or Klopp had with Dortmund and Liverpool.

You'd think he personally dragged the club up from Division 2 and won us our first Premier League title the way some on here deify him.




Yep. Winning means nothing if it’s inevitable - I’d rather have done it the Leicester way; an owner who wants to invest rather than monopolise, develop our own talent and win one title and cup in 5 years if it was achieved more organically than simply buying £1b of players to neutralise the competition.
"Winning means nothing if it’s inevitable"

Wee Olie seems to be having problems understanding that.
 

1961_vintage

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Joined
21 Sep 2009
Messages
11,613
Yep. Winning means nothing if it’s inevitable - I’d rather have done it the Leicester way; an owner who wants to invest rather than monopolise, develop our own talent and win one title and cup in 5 years if it was achieved more organically than simply buying £1b of players to neutralise the competition.
Your ignorance, your lack of self-awareness and total absence of irony makes you stand out like a big, fat, swollen, stinking brown floater in a swimming pool.

But thanks for the laughs though.
 

Psychedelic Casual

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1 Sep 2016
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24,799
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Great Britain, Greater Manchester
What’s the criteria? Inheriting Barcelona 2 years after they’d won a European Cup, with key players from the Spain Euro 2008 team and a Messi who was naturally destined to be the best player in the world? Or winning default titles at Bayern while neutralising them Europe? Or winning a 3 titles in his 5 years here, in each of which he had the best squad in the league?

Where’s the evidence of superiority, that can’t be accredited to circumstance?

He doesn’t have a reference point of overachievement - the true barometer of greatness for a manager - like Ferguson did with Aberdeen or Klopp had with Dortmund and Liverpool.

You'd think he personally dragged the club up from Division 2 and won us our first Premier League title the way some on here deify him.




Yep. Winning means nothing if it’s inevitable - I’d rather have done it the Leicester way; an owner who wants to invest rather than monopolise, develop our own talent and win one title and cup in 5 years if it was achieved more organically than simply buying £1b of players to neutralise the competition.
Jesus, talk about not understanding what Pep did to football!

That Barcelona team he inherited had 8 players who’d just left their wives and were out partying and drinking too much, there was an apparent poor culture at the club under Rijkaard. Pep came in and immediately got rid of the best player (Ronaldinho) to the fans’ disgust and the squad’s amazement as well as other key players in that team like Deco.

He revolutionised the way they played. Attacking football like this had never been seen before. His Barça team broke multiple all-time La Liga records. He played with players in strict zones on the pitch. In one game Henry had scored two goals and was going for his hat trick, but Henry came out of his zone on two occasions and Pep subbed him for it. Football was about the team, not individuals.

Playing that way, Barça went from winning nothing in 2007-08 (3rd in La Liga, CL semis, Copa semis) to winning the sextuple in his first year.

At Bayern, those “default titles” you refer to had only been won by Bayern once in the three years previous to Pep taking over, only twice in the five years before, and only five times in the previous twelve. Literally well below a 50% hit rate making your “default” point null. It was Pep that went there and made their league a one-horse race. Breaking multiple all-time Bundesliga records. He also didn’t fail to get Bayern to at least the semi final of the CL (you do know there were other good teams in Europe don’t you?). And ask @Maldeika who posts on here about what Bayern fans thought to Pep as a coach and the football they played under him.

At City he took over the unfittest team in the league with dreadful running stats and coming from two seasons where all we won was one EFL Cup. It was an ageing team n’all. Within two years we were breaking all-time English football records (think we have now broken 24!) and we’re the first Centurions and domestic quadruple winners in English football history.

We went from 66 points in 2015-16 under Pellegrini, to 100 points in 2017-18. We went from a collective 145 points in 2014-15 and 2015-16 to 198 points in 2017-18 and 2018-19. We went from 1 trophy in two years in 2014-15 and 2015-16 to 6 trophies in two years in 2017-18 and 2018-19.

He literally has a reference point for over achievement at every club he’s coached.


And on your “Leicester way” - you do know that they broke FFP to get promoted and the next time they ever play in that division they will start on a points deduction? And all their success has come from investment from fraudsters who were and are under investigation with the Thai govt both when their owner died and now? The only reason their owner can’t “monopolise” (considering Liverpool have also won 4 trophies in the last three years and Chelsea have won 4 trophies in the last 5 years, you literally can’t call it a monopoly) is because FFP won’t let him (they wouldn’t get away with breaking FFP now like they did to get out of the Championship) if he could, he would.

And they had one player in their entire squad who came through their academy the year they won the league. You do know that City have made £380m in sales of players from our Academy in the last four years? Mostly from players that are nowhere near good enough to play for our first team so you wanting them in our first team would have us nowhere near winning one title in five years.

You need to watch this fella;

Get an idea!

People (you and others I’ve seen moaning about Pep this week) will do well to remember all this, and if we finish third on 80 points this season we would still be much better than in the two final years with Pellegrini. So wanting someone to replace Pep is a dangerous game!

He’s not mistake free by any means, but he’s by far the best!
 
Last edited:

alexmcity

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Joined
1 Aug 2019
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City
What’s the criteria? Inheriting Barcelona 2 years after they’d won a European Cup, with key players from the Spain Euro 2008 team and a Messi who was naturally destined to be the best player in the world? Or winning default titles at Bayern while neutralising them Europe? Or winning a 3 titles in his 5 years here, in each of which he had the best squad in the league?

Where’s the evidence of superiority, that can’t be accredited to circumstance?

He doesn’t have a reference point of overachievement - the true barometer of greatness for a manager - like Ferguson did with Aberdeen or Klopp had with Dortmund and Liverpool.

You'd think he personally dragged the club up from Division 2 and won us our first Premier League title the way some on here deify him.

Some criteria:

1. trophies
2. style
3. tactical innovations
4. development of talents
5. longevity at the top
6. overachieving, success with underdogs

1. Trophies: only Ferguson is comparable to Pep, but he managed much longer than Pep. When Ferguson was Pep's age, he had won half of Pep's trophies. Doubt there is a winning machine like Pep in terms of trophies per season, at least wrt managers with at least 7-8 seasons at club level.

2. Style. Pep's Barca is on another planet compared to any of Ferguson's or Klopp's teams. They are up there with Ajax 71-73 and Milan 88-90. Someone like Mourinho or Ferguson would have won trophies with Barca's squad back in 2008, but the style in which Pep won trophies was unique and put his team amongst the greatest ever. Same with City and other English teams. Style and number of records is unique. Pep needed 2 years in England to break more league records than Ferguson did for 25+ years. Let that sink in.

3. Tactical innovations: Pep's on another planet compared to Ferguson, Mourinho, Ancelotti and Klopp. There's a reason why Klopp's assistant was called The Brain: he coached Klopp's Dortmund and determined tactics. In a book about the history of tactics in football, the chapter on Pep would be big, and the chapters on the likes of Ferguson and Mourinho small, if there are such at all.

4. Coaching: Messi had the talent to be the best in the world, Pep made him the best ever. Xavi and Iniesta were top players, Pep made them all-time greats. Dias arrived last season with a relatively modest reputation and ended the season as the best CB in the world or as being close to that. Ferguson didn't even coach United in his later years.

5. Longevity: Pep's one of the few managers who is at top, top level for over 10 years now. He isn't a flash in the pan.

6. Overachieving: Pep did overachieve with Barcelona for two simple reasons: (1) they had finished 3rd in La Liga in 07/08, 15 months later they were by far the best in the world with 6 trophies won with fantastic football. Nobody expected it when Pep took over in 2008 and showed the door to stars like Ronaldinho and Deco. (2) The fallacy people make when they evaluate Pep is to count the trophies and neglect the style of winning them. To take a team 15 pts off the top in Spain and make it the best team ever within 2-3 years is a huge, huge achievement.

Pep overachieved at City as well. How come? Well, who expected the 17/18 season: 100 pts, 106 goals, best GD ever, multiple records broken, etc.? Nobody! Pep won 100 pts with a make-shift defence with Otamendi/Stones at CB whom nobody rated as world-class before 17/18 season, and with a midfielder at LB. Could Ferguson win 100 pts with those players? Not in a million years! Same with Klopp, who had much, much better defenders at his disposal when they tried to win 100 pts and failed. Further, could Ferguson and Klopp win 100 pts with young players like Sane (21), Sterling (23), Jesus (20). Doubt it.

Then Pep won the title without a striker! Could Ferguson and Klopp win the title with Gundogan as a top scorer? I very much doubt it.

Winning trophies as underdogs is impressive, but not decisive. Otherwise, Ranieri would be a greater manager than Pep, and nobody believes that!

In short, keep Pep at City as long as possible, he's phenomenal.
 
Last edited:

Blue Til Death

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Jesus, talk about not understanding what Pep did to football!

That Barcelona team he inherited had 8 players who’d just left their wives and were out partying and drinking too much, there was an apparent poor culture at the club under Rijkaard. Pep came in and immediately got rid of the best player (Ronaldinho) to the fans’ disgust and the squad’s amazement as well as other key players in that team like Deco.

He revolutionised the way they played. Attacking football like this had never been seen before. His Barça team broke multiple all-time La Liga records. He played with players in strict zones on the pitch. In one game Henry had scored two goals and was going for his hat trick, but Henry came out of his zone on two occasions and Pep subbed him for it. Football was about the team, not individuals.

Playing that way, Barça went from winning nothing in 2007-08 (3rd in La Liga, CL semis, Copa semis) to winning the sextuple in his first year.

At Bayern, that default title you refer to had only been won by Bayern once in the three years previous to Pep taking over, only twice in the five years before, and only five times in the previous twelve. Literally well below a 50% hit rate making your default point null. It was Pep that went there and made their league a one-horse race. Breaking multiple all-time Bundesliga records. He also didn’t fail to get Bayern to at least the semi final of the CL (you do know there were other good teams in Europe don’t you?). And ask @Maldeika who posts on here about what Bayern fans thought to Pep as a coach and the football they played under him.

At City he took over the unfittest team in the league with dreadful running stats and coming from two seasons where all we won was one EFL Cup. It was an ageing team n’all. Within two years we were breaking all-time English football records (think we have now broken 24!) and we’re the first Centurions and domestic quadruple winners in English football history.

We went from 66 points in 2015-16 under Pellegrini, to 100 points in 2017-18. We went from a collective 145 points in 2014-15 and 2015-16 to 198 points in 2017-18 and 2018-19. We went from 1 trophy in two years in 2014-15 and 2015-16 to 6 trophies in two years in 2017-18 and 2018-19.

He literally has a reference point for over achievement at every club he’s coached.


And on your “Leicester way” - you do know that they broke FFP to get promoted and the next time they ever play in that division they will start on a points deduction? And all their success has come from investment from fraudsters who were and are under investigation with the Thai govt both when their owner died and now? The only reason their owner can’t “monopolise” (considering Liverpool have also won 4 trophies in the last three years and Chelsea have won 4 trophies in the last 5 years, you literally can’t call it a monopoly) is because FFP won’t let him (they wouldn’t get away with breaking FFP now like they did to get out of the Championship) if he could, he would.

And they had one player in their entire squad who came through their academy the year they won the league. You do know that City have made £380m in sales of players from our Academy in the last four years? Mostly from players that are nowhere near good enough to play for our first team so you wanting them in our first team would have us nowhere near winning one title in five years.

You need to watch this fella;

Get an idea!

People (you and others I’ve seen moaning about Pep this week) will do well to remember all this, and if we finish third on 80 points this season we would still be much better than in the two final years with Pellegrini. So wanting someone to replace Pep is a dangerous game!

He’s not mistake free by any means, but he’s by far the best!
Wasting your breath mate, this clown has just lumped all the Pep bingo together without doing a millisecond of research… In short, a typical rag… No reasoned argument or eloquent presentation of cold, hard facts will change their mindset .. Jealousy and bitterness make poor bedfellows …!
 

marcus

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9 Feb 2006
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4,533
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chedle en le hum
Jesus, talk about not understanding what Pep did to football!

That Barcelona team he inherited had 8 players who’d just left their wives and were out partying and drinking too much, there was an apparent poor culture at the club under Rijkaard. Pep came in and immediately got rid of the best player (Ronaldinho) to the fans’ disgust and the squad’s amazement as well as other key players in that team like Deco.

He revolutionised the way they played. Attacking football like this had never been seen before. His Barça team broke multiple all-time La Liga records. He played with players in strict zones on the pitch. In one game Henry had scored two goals and was going for his hat trick, but Henry came out of his zone on two occasions and Pep subbed him for it. Football was about the team, not individuals.

Playing that way, Barça went from winning nothing in 2007-08 (3rd in La Liga, CL semis, Copa semis) to winning the sextuple in his first year.

At Bayern, that default title you refer to had only been won by Bayern once in the three years previous to Pep taking over, only twice in the five years before, and only five times in the previous twelve. Literally well below a 50% hit rate making your default point null. It was Pep that went there and made their league a one-horse race. Breaking multiple all-time Bundesliga records. He also didn’t fail to get Bayern to at least the semi final of the CL (you do know there were other good teams in Europe don’t you?). And ask @Maldeika who posts on here about what Bayern fans thought to Pep as a coach and the football they played under him.

At City he took over the unfittest team in the league with dreadful running stats and coming from two seasons where all we won was one EFL Cup. It was an ageing team n’all. Within two years we were breaking all-time English football records (think we have now broken 24!) and we’re the first Centurions and domestic quadruple winners in English football history.

We went from 66 points in 2015-16 under Pellegrini, to 100 points in 2017-18. We went from a collective 145 points in 2014-15 and 2015-16 to 198 points in 2017-18 and 2018-19. We went from 1 trophy in two years in 2014-15 and 2015-16 to 6 trophies in two years in 2017-18 and 2018-19.

He literally has a reference point for over achievement at every club he’s coached.


And on your “Leicester way” - you do know that they broke FFP to get promoted and the next time they ever play in that division they will start on a points deduction? And all their success has come from investment from fraudsters who were and are under investigation with the Thai govt both when their owner died and now? The only reason their owner can’t “monopolise” (considering Liverpool have also won 4 trophies in the last three years and Chelsea have won 4 trophies in the last 5 years, you literally can’t call it a monopoly) is because FFP won’t let him (they wouldn’t get away with breaking FFP now like they did to get out of the Championship) if he could, he would.

And they had one player in their entire squad who came through their academy the year they won the league. You do know that City have made £380m in sales of players from our Academy in the last four years? Mostly from players that are nowhere near good enough to play for our first team so you wanting them in our first team would have us nowhere near winning one title in five years.

You need to watch this fella;

Get an idea!

People (you and others I’ve seen moaning about Pep this week) will do well to remember all this, and if we finish third on 80 points this season we would still be much better than in the two final years with Pellegrini. So wanting someone to replace Pep is a dangerous game!

He’s not mistake free by any means, but he’s by far the best!
Well thats a fantastic answer
 

Cheadle_hulmeBlue

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Joined
27 Oct 2012
Messages
12,520
I think when Pep does leave, my personal opinion is that we need a refresh - and that includes some of the board members.

I’d like us to take a new strategy that involves utilising the abundance of local academy talent that we have right in front of us, in conjunction with the pre-established world class stars we already have in our ranks.

I’d genuinely take a couple of seasons of ‘underperformance’ if it means seeing the likes of Foden, Palmer, McAtee, Harwood-Bellis etc firmly integrated into the team.

Things have gone a bit stale in my view and I find myself getting more disassociated with the club season on season. I’ll obviously always be supporting City come rain or shine, but seeing local lads line up for City week in week will inject so much identity back into the club in my opinion. Seeing Foden develop into this world class star has been one of the biggest positives for me in the past couple of seasons, not spanking dross in the league cup.

I’m personally finding the pursuit of having 20 £50-100m players in the squad quite tedious and also, completely unnecessary at times.

I’m not saying we should stop making big signings, merely saying that we need to find a balance, rather than always chucking more money at the problem, and look at our own in addition to chasing world class talent.

When Pep does leave (and that’s something in no way am I advocating for, but it feels inevitable), I’d like to see Tkixi go with him and Soriano shift into a wider CFG role, with someone stepping in to solely look after City in a CEO capacity. I don’t want our CEO more bothered about opening the 20th club associated with our owner in the arse end of nowhere, I want them completely focused on City.

Change and fresh ideas are healthy and I feel Pep leaving would be the right time for a re-think in strategy. And I feel that time is quite imminent.

great post. Completely agree with you

it means so much more having local academy players in the side. I finding myself caring less about the players we buy
 

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