If 1894 want to sit in the lower tier another group needs to form to pressure the club into pushing singers towards the upper tier.Correct me if I’m wrong mate, but are you talking about getting fans in the lower tier and upper tier of an expanded north stand?
How would that work practically? You’d have to force everyone out of the family stand. Surely it would make more sense to get everyone in an 8,000 standing second tier - similar to Ac Milan for example.
I would place singers/ a core group towards the front/ middle section of tier 2. It’s only posters on here who have suggested being at the back. The front/ middle isn’t in the gods either
I think in terms of displays as well, surely tier 2 would be much better. You can create bigger displays and be more creative in what you do. Tier 1 doesn’t really allow large scale tifos.
Fair enough if you disagree
I think on this thread we are looking into things a little bit to deep.
In the meeting 4 of us had with the club 2 weeks ago, the club is 100% behind a better atmosphere. The benefits of a game that is buzzing are endless. We are working together.
One of the irritating comments on here is the mention of tourists and day trippers in the lower SS safestand. This is mainly down to fans not going to the games and selling off their ticket and other seats being spare because the lower SS isnt sold out with season cards. If we took out all the day trippers you would end up with many empty seats, that is the last thing we & the club want.
Before the season cards come available for the new north stand, we will be meeting up with the club to ask for the number of blocks we want reserving in the lower section and the upper section for singers that want to move. If all that we ask for is one block for lower stand and one block for upper then it will fail. Realistically we need 3 blocks in each to make the atmosphere good. Fans are split in their preference between lower tier and upper, it is no good telling fans they all have to go upper tier under the roof, they will decide. Personally i am going lower as it will be easier for displays and i dont want to view the game up with the gods.
If we get 3 blocks filled with atmosphere minded fans in each tier we are looking at 4,000 - 5,000 fans. This will get the stadium going. It is down to fans over the next 18 months to decide what they want and to push aside sitting near away fans or preferred seat and so on with reasons not to move.
Move in to the new north stand, make use of what we have not what we could have, this is the last chance.
They can. Offer them cheap to those season ticket holders already in the singing areas. How many is that? 2-3000 at most. If they got a 2000 takeup on it, so that was say a £300 discount each, it's £600K which is fuck all and would be easily swallow up by the increased capacity and the long term advantage of more people wanting to come.Match ticket prices are only going one way and that's up.
City can't offer cheaper season tickets and match day tickets in the expanded North stand, there would be a stampede, and then increase season tickets and match day tickets elsewhere in the ground.
We've had continual season ticket and match day ticket price increases for the last 10 seasons, along with 1 season ticket price freeze.
People will just have to pay the going rate for a North stand season ticket. The club know they will have a captive audience, desperate to move to a new expanded North stand, singing section/s and home end.
I think a survey needs to be done first beforehand with the season ticket holders that are located in those 3 blocks behind the goal in the North Stand 1st tier.My son and I moved there after I received a message from the club saying that we needed to move from tier 2 when he reached 18 as it would become the main family stand(I don't believe the club made any progression with this).I am all for a better atmosphere and fully support it as will my son in his 20's but not sure we are happy to move again when we would qualify for a singing section.I think on this thread we are looking into things a little bit to deep.
In the meeting 4 of us had with the club 2 weeks ago, the club is 100% behind a better atmosphere. The benefits of a game that is buzzing are endless. We are working together.
One of the irritating comments on here is the mention of tourists and day trippers in the lower SS safestand. This is mainly down to fans not going to the games and selling off their ticket and other seats being spare because the lower SS isnt sold out with season cards. If we took out all the day trippers you would end up with many empty seats, that is the last thing we & the club want.
Before the season cards come available for the new north stand, we will be meeting up with the club to ask for the number of blocks we want reserving in the lower section and the upper section for singers that want to move. If all that we ask for is one block for lower stand and one block for upper then it will fail. Realistically we need 3 blocks in each to make the atmosphere good. Fans are split in their preference between lower tier and upper, it is no good telling fans they all have to go upper tier under the roof, they will decide. Personally i am going lower as it will be easier for displays and i dont want to view the game up with the gods.
If we get 3 blocks filled with atmosphere minded fans in each tier we are looking at 4,000 - 5,000 fans. This will get the stadium going. It is down to fans over the next 18 months to decide what they want and to push aside sitting near away fans or preferred seat and so on with reasons not to move.
Move in to the new north stand, make use of what we have not what we could have, this is the last chance.
Couldnt agree more with this.Mistakes are already being made here in my opinion.
What we don’t want is everyone to move to the new North Stand and then for there to be a clear divide between the lower and upper tiers due to people being spit between the two areas.
It begs the question of what the point is of an expanded upper tier if a large % of the singers are going into the lower section, which is completely disconnected from the newly expanded upper tier?
For me, the expanded upper tier needs to be the clear and obvious focal point of the expansion. That’s the whole point of having an expanded upper tier as opposed to a third tier. If people are going in the bottom than then the expanded upper tier is almost completely redundant as a device to get singers together.
In terms of displays, I actually think they would look better on an expanded upper section. We can have larger flags that don’t need to be spread across two tiers and other displays and banners can be hung over the front of the upper tier as well. That walking boat that appeared a year or two ago would look great being walked across the front of the expanded section.
Also, I wouldn’t say you were ‘up in the gods’ if you’re at the front of the second tier. Maybe that would be a good place for you so you can have a good view, drape banners over the front of the tier and pull down large displays.
The current singing sections are a mixture of fans. Singers, people who sing every now and again, and people who don't sing at all. If City offered cheap North stand season tickets to fans in the current singing sections they would end up replicating less than successful singing sections in SSL1, 111, 110 in the expanded North stand, and that's putting it kindly.They can. Offer them cheap to those season ticket holders already in the singing areas. How many is that? 2-3000 at most. If they got a 2000 takeup on it, so that was say a £300 discount each, it's £600K which is fuck all and would be easily swallow up by the increased capacity and the long term advantage of more people wanting to come.
In any case, a stampede is good if people are told in no uncertain terms that this is the new Kippax. The slack from where they've moved can be filled with new fans if our growth continues.
I neither want or ask the vermin fuck allThe current singing sections are a mixture of fans. Singers, people who sing every now and again, and people who don't sing at all. If City offered cheap North stand season tickets to fans in the current singing sections they would end up replicating a less than successful singing sections in SSL1, 111, 110 in the expanded North stand, and that's putting it kindly.
United have 1500 SINGERS in their singing section. If United can do it, so can City. If need be City should contact United and see how they did it.
United definitely had a fan ballot to go in the singing section, which was over subscribed for the size of the block. We/City don't have that problem or restriction. We may have a 6000-8000 (safe standing?) tier to accommodate as many singers as the club wants to accommodate.
I neither want or ask the vermin fuck all
They wouldn't be replicating it because the current situation is way off ideal:The current singing sections are a mixture of fans. Singers, people who sing every now and again, and people who don't sing at all. If City offered cheap North stand season tickets to fans in the current singing sections they would end up replicating a less than successful singing sections in SSL1, 111, 110 in the expanded North stand, and that's putting it kindly.
United have 1500 SINGERS in their singing section. If United can do it, so can City. If need be City should contact United and see how they did it.
United definitely had a fan ballot to go in the singing section, which was over subscribed for the size of the block. We/City don't have that problem or restriction. We may have a 6000-8000 (safe standing?) tier to accommodate as many singers as the club wants to accommodate.
They wouldn't be replicating it because the current situation is way off ideal:
1) The singers are miles from the roof so their noise doesn't sound loud
2) The songs can't spead right because the away fans are right next door
3) The songs are drowned out by adjecent away fans so don't spread
4) There are two seperate groups of singers who can't hear each other.
It's all about the way songs spread organically around a stadium having started in one place. Whatever the mix in the current safe standing areas, they are the most voal supporters and they'd have to be encouraged to move to the new stand first. They would make or break this. Only 1000 initially would be enough. Build it (and make it work) and they will come. There are thousands of thousands of would-be singers in our stadium who would sing if they had a leader and others did.
It's not about setting up a "singing section" as you keep saying. It shoudl be about concentrating the noisiest fans in one place so it spreads.
If everyone in the south stand lower relocated to the middle of the north stnd upper tier we'd have a new Kippax in my opinion. That's all it would take.I was referring to the cheaper season tickets. You'd end up with the same mixture in the North stand as you've got in the South stand if that happened. There would be a pile on for cheaper season tickets in the North stand.
The stand won't be ready for another 3 years, so if season tickets continue to rise season upon season that will be at least another 2 season ticket price rises before the North stand season tickets are available to buy. So trying to gauge a price for season tickets now is pretty impossible.
Other factors such as tier 2 season ticket availability, Platinum, Gold, Silver, singing section season tickets, age season tickets, match day tickets, etc, all have to be factored in by the club.
The new North stand, roof and acoustics will look after themselves.
How many in 109 and SS3 would go as well, that makes for a fair few i imagine.If everyone in the south stand lower relocated to the middle of the north stnd upper tier we'd have a new Kippax in my opinion. That's all it would take.
Well said Trevor. It is great to hear the club is listening. I’m also of a mind that this the NS expansion is a once in a generation opportunity. Not just an opportunity to make a better noise, it’s also got to be a generational opportunity to improve accessibility to the club by providing more STs at a manageable price. If we improve accessibility to the club to younger and local fans that is bound to help increase the noise as the vibe catches amongst fans who are excited to be there. I’ve heard it said that the average age of our ST holders is 55. By the time the new NS stand is finished that will be closer to 60.In the meeting 4 of us had with the club 2 weeks ago, the club is 100% behind a better atmosphere. The benefits of a game that is buzzing are endless. We are working together.
If we get 3 blocks filled with atmosphere minded fans in each tier we are looking at 4,000 - 5,000 fans. This will get the stadium going.
Is it families we need or dads n lads ? I always went with my old man so I’ve no real experience of attending as a family but had my mum been there too I definitely wouldn’t have joined in with many of the chants that I did and nor would my old man.Well said Trevor. It is great to hear the club is listening. I’m also of a mind that this the NS expansion is a once in a generation opportunity. Not just an opportunity to make a better noise, it’s also got to be a generational opportunity to improve accessibility to the club by providing more STs at a manageable price. If we improve accessibility to the club to younger and local fans that is bound to help increase the noise as the vibe catches amongst fans who are excited to be there. I’ve heard it said that the average age of our ST holders is 55. By the time the new NS stand is finished that will be closer to 60.
The challenge of creating a better atmosphere can’t all be placed on the shoulders of older Blues. Those born after the takeover have to step up and learn how it’s done in good numbers, and they won’t do that if they are shut out of the ground. We can’t just shift around the same vocal fans, we have to get new vocal fans in and keep them.
The club is doing great work to make kids feel like they are part of a CLUB. But the fact that the NS isn’t packed full of families - its pretty much the same mix you’d find anywhere in the ground with just a few more kids and slightly less effing and jeffing - tells us City has to do more to get parents, kids and teens into the ground.
Mistakes are already being made here in my opinion.
What we don’t want is everyone to move to the new North Stand and then for there to be a clear divide between the lower and upper tiers due to people being spit between the two areas.
It begs the question of what the point is of an expanded upper tier if a large % of the singers are going into the lower section, which is completely disconnected from the newly expanded upper tier?
For me, the expanded upper tier needs to be the clear and obvious focal point of the expansion. That’s the whole point of having an expanded upper tier as opposed to a third tier. If people are going in the bottom then the expanded upper tier is almost completely redundant as a device to get singers together.
In terms of displays, I actually think they would look better on an expanded upper section. We can have larger flags that don’t need to be spread across two tiers and other displays and banners can be hung over the front of the upper tier as well. That walking boat that appeared a year or two ago would look great being walked across the front of the expanded section.
Also, I wouldn’t say you were ‘up in the gods’ if you’re at the front of the second tier. Maybe that would be a good place for you so you can have a good view, drape banners over the front of the tier and pull down large displays.
I always went with my old man so I’ve no real experience of attending as a family but had my mum been there too I definitely wouldn’t have joined in with many of the chants that I did and nor would my old man.
I had the fortune / misfortune to get a cup ticket at the back of 115 earlier this season and man do those kids put a shift in - they barely pause for breath, non stop singing. If you put that little group of maybe 200 lads in the middle of a stand where the acoustics help rather than hinder them and surround them with other like minded blues they’ll take the fucking roof off every week
Dad and lads describes me to a tee. My Gooner Mrs no longer comes with us and much as she loves footy, shes not as keen on the shouting and singing and if she doesn’t come, it means we have a cheekier time.Is it families we need or dads n lads ? I always went with my old man so I’ve no real experience of attending as a family but had my mum been there too I definitely wouldn’t have joined in with many of the chants that I did and nor would my old man.
Regardless, I think the future is rosy atmosphere wise. I had the fortune / misfortune to get a cup ticket at the back of 115 earlier this season and man do those kids put a shift in - they barely pause for breath, non stop singing. If you put that little group of maybe 200 lads in the middle of a stand where the acoustics help rather than hinder them and surround them with other like minded blues they’ll take the fucking roof off every week
I sat in a box with seats on the second tier for the Fulham cup game in the corner of the stadium where the south stand joins the Colin bell. I couldn’t believe it. You could see people singing in the lower tiers but could hardly hear anything even though they were really close. From the top tier of the Colin Bell in the opposite corner you can hear the singing much more clearly even though you are further away. I think that’s because I am more or less facing them so the sound travels that way. The acoustics are just bizarre. The nearest Ive found to it is Wembley which is similar. In both stadiums you can get a real din going but only if the sound collects in the middle after bouncing off the roofs.As it is, the acoustics of the whole of the SS militate against collective singing. I'm in second level, only three rows from the front (great seat, by the way). You can barely hear singing either in the bottom tier, or the upper one, when it's going on. And I know for a fact that the second tier has on occasions made quite a racket — because I've joined in (undignified as it is for a man of my advanced years!) — but I'm not at all sure that's it's audible above and below, either.
The club must not get the North Stand wrong, if it's going ahead with it. It really is a once-in-a-generation opportunity.
Just before first lockdown, I was at the Tottenham I Hotspur Stadium. I have to say that they've got it right. It is a magnificent stadium (shame about the trophies…). And that huge wall of supporters makes an impressive sound, when things are going their way.