Obama

Saddleworth2 said:
Really fine post mate. Agree with every word and most of them could also be applied to our own PM.
Out of interest, what was your view of Obama? Both as an individual and his Presidential legacy?
Click to expand...

I voted for him in 08 but for Romney in 12. Without walking though my political views in detail -- the most important reason I voted for him in 08 was because I thought the social significance of electing a President of African-American descent was really important as a division healer in the USA (wow, was I ever wrong about that). I liked him and thought his more progressive views would be tempered as President. They were to a degree and I applauded his efforts on healthcare, but I really liked Romney's pragmatism and felt he'd drive tighter govt spending. I also thought Obama was not nearly visible enough on the international relations stage, but I was happy I had a choice between what I thought were two reasonable candidates in 2012.
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
My tone is brought about because I dislike thoughtless, uninformed generalizations like "I will however not leap upon the left leaning band waggon and condemn out of hand everything he does purely to be in with the crowd."

You don't have to be left or right, from the States or anywhere else, to want to condemn amorality, stupidity, lack of experience and preparation, self-serving, a laughable-were-it-not appalling lack of honesty and those utterly devoid of empathy. Which he's demonstrated for 30+ years of his public life by the way.

You aren't friends with nor related to anyone like this I reckon.

If you can't see those traits and condemn them in Trump, and excuse them with some insipid rationalization like "well, la de da, everyone does good things and bad things, herp de derp", then there's either an intellectual or moral defect you should have resolved.

This isn't political. This is about traits that underlie leadership or lack thereof. To believe they don't matter is to espouse the philosophy that the ends justify the means. Maybe that is what you believe. And if it is, then, yeah, we disagree, and don't expect me to be civil about it.
Click to expand...

This thread was about Obama but it's become about Trump, Obama did many things wrong and criticising him doesn't mean that you are a Trump supporter.
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
My tone is brought about because I dislike thoughtless, uninformed generalizations like "I will however not leap upon the left leaning band waggon and condemn out of hand everything he does purely to be in with the crowd."

You don't have to be left or right, from the States or anywhere else, to want to condemn amorality, stupidity, lack of experience and preparation, self-serving, a laughable-were-it-not appalling lack of honesty and those utterly devoid of empathy. Which he's demonstrated for 30+ years of his public life by the way.

You aren't friends with nor related to anyone like this I reckon.

If you can't see those traits and condemn them in Trump, and excuse them with some insipid rationalization like "well, la de da, everyone does good things and bad things, herp de derp", then there's either an intellectual or moral defect you should have resolved.

This isn't political. This is about traits that underlie leadership or lack thereof. To believe they don't matter is to espouse the philosophy that the ends justify the means. Maybe that is what you believe. And if it is, then, yeah, we disagree, and don't expect me to be civil about it.
Click to expand...
Couldn’t have put it better myself and is the reason why discussion with certain people is utterly pointless.
 
purplenose said:
I actually agree with much of what you have said. I have not expressed a like or preference for Donald Trump or what he is and many of the things he has done.

I am neither left nor right as a result am accused by both of being both.....using American speak, Go Figure.

If you cannot be civil when discussing these matters then you are frankly rather more like Donald Trump than Barack Obama that I will gladly give you. Which of course is quite ironic.

When you talk about traits then I would suggest that there are few if any politicians have the traits you value or at least none that are more than skin deep. If this were not the case I am very sorry to say they would be very unlikely to make much impact in politics either side of the atlantic.

Just to some that up in a few choice words of Kippax speak in my humble opinion they are pretty much all a bunch of cunts.
Click to expand...

No, no, no, no. The equivalencies of "few if any politicians" and "they are pretty much all a bunch of cunts" is exactly the kind of sloppy citizenship I've railed against for years. It's lazy, slovenly, irresponsible, and untrue.

The fact is you haven't done your homework on Donald Trump, but saying "they all suck" lets you get away with it.
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
No, no, no, no. The equivalencies of "few if any politicians" and "they are pretty much all a bunch of cunts" is exactly the kind of sloppy citizenship I've railed against for years. It's lazy, slovenly, irresponsible, and untrue.

The fact is you haven't done your homework on Donald Trump, but saying "they all suck" lets you get away with it.
Click to expand...

Okay so in your opinion what more should I have done before forming my own opinion of Donald Trump? What about my opinions on politicians here in my own country? Believe me I am the last to form opinions from the entrenched. I am able to accept others have different opinions than I do, and remain civil despite any refusal to see the light I might believe I am shining.
 
purplenose said:
Okay so in your opinion what more should I have done before forming my own opinion of Donald Trump? What about my opinions on politicians here in my own country? Believe me I am the last to form opinions from the entrenched. I am able to accept others have different opinions than I do, and remain civil despite any refusal to see the light I might believe I am shining.
Click to expand...

Well, start with your own personal moral code. Write it down. Then write down a list of traits you value in friends, neighbo(u)rs, family members, co-workers. Decide that these are the same kind of traits you want in a leader. Then read his books and his interviews and his tweets from before he was President. There are thousands upon thousands of pages (unlike, by the way, many if not most politicians) to choose from. See if the code and traits he exhibits match up with what you wrote down for yourself or for people you know. I suspect you'll get to an answer long before you ever come to his "politics."
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top
✖
  AdBlock Detected
Bluemoon relies on advertising to pay our hosting fees. Please support the site by disabling your ad blocking software to help keep the forum sustainable. Thanks.