Our record against 10 men under Pep

[youngbob]

I saw it suggested in the post-match thread last night that, under Pep, City have historically blown teams away when the opposition have been reduced to 10 men, and that only coming back from 1-2 down to draw 2-2 with Arsenal on Sunday was below expectations.

So I did a little digging into our history with Pep in charge and found every instance when an opposition player has been sent off at the Etihad in a Premier League game. Then I looked into what score the game was when the red card was shown and the full-time score of that game, and so on...

16/17
Manchester United 0-0 D (Fellaini sent off, 84 mins)

17/18
Everton 1-1 D (Schneiderlin sent off, 88 mins) - Walker also sent off in that game
Liverpool 5-0 W (Mané sent off, 37 mins) - already 1-0 to City when red card shown

18/19
Wolves 3-0 W (Boly sent off, 19 mins) - already 1-0 to City when red card shown

19/20
Arsenal 3-0 W (David Luiz sent off, 49 mins) - already 1-0 to City when red card shown

20/21
Leeds 1-2 L (Cooper sent off, 45 mins) - 1-0 to Leeds when red card shown

21/22
Arsenal 5-0 W (Xhaka sent off, 35 mins) - already 2-0 to City when red card shown
Wolves 1-0 W (Jimenez sent off, 45 mins) - 0-0 when red card shown, City win via Raheem Sterling penalty

22/23
N/A

23/24
N/A

24/25
Arsenal 2-2 D (Trossard sent off, 45 mins) - 2-1 to Arsenal when red card shown

Compiling all the data, in seasons under Pep Guardiola, in games at the Etihad:

- City's opponents have had a man sent off on a total of nine occasions in the Premier League
- Our record overall in these nine games is P9 W5 D3 L1
- City's overall record when already winning (at the time of the red card) is: P4 W4 D0 L0
- Our record when drawing is: P3 W1 D2 L0 (win came vs Wolves at home, Sterling penalty got the three points)
- Our record when LOSING is: P2 W0 D1 L1 (this includes the Arsenal draw)

So, the facts are there for all to see. Historically, we actually don't "blow teams away" all the time when they're down to 10 men. And we especially don't tend to blow teams away if they get reduced to 10 while already winning or drawing. The result against Arsenal on Sunday was entirely typical of our history under Guardiola in similar situations. And, in fact, it's the first time in the Premier League under Guardiola that we've got even one point from a game when the 10 men we're facing already have something to hold on to.

A big well done to the lads for getting something out of the game yesterday. It's the first time we have under Guardiola.

 

[alexmcity]

We lost vs Leeds in April, 2021. Our team was heavily rotated, but the patterns were the same: too many passes around the box, too little penetration.

We should have put many players in the box vs Arsenal and cause chaos so that to score more goals like Stones's. Dias and Gvardiol should have been next to Haaland from the start of 2nd half, with Walker and Akanji taking care of rare counters.

 

[supercity88]

I saw it suggested in the post-match thread last night that, under Pep, City have historically blown teams away when the opposition have been reduced to 10 men, and that only coming back from 1-2 down to draw 2-2 with Arsenal on Sunday was below expectations.

So I did a little digging into our history with Pep in charge and found every instance when an opposition player has been sent off at the Etihad in a Premier League game. Then I looked into what score the game was when the red card was shown and the full-time score of that game, and so on...



Compiling all the data, in seasons under Pep Guardiola:

- City's opponents have had a man sent off on a total of nine occasions in the Premier League
- Our record overall in these nine games is P9 W5 D3 L1
- City's overall record when already winning (at the time of the red card) is: P4 W4 D0 L0
- Our record when drawing is: P3 W1 D2 L0 (win came vs Wolves at home, Sterling penalty got the three points)
- Our record when LOSING is: P2 W0 D1 L1 (this includes the Arsenal draw)

So, the facts are there for all to see. Historically, we actually don't "blow teams away" all the time when they're down to 10 men. And we especially don't tend to blow teams away if they get reduced to 10 while already winning or drawing. The result against Arsenal on Sunday was entirely typical of our history under Guardiola in similar situations. And, in fact, it's the first time in the Premier League under Guardiola that we've got even one point from a game when the 10 men we're facing already have something to hold on to.

A big well done to the lads for getting something out of the game yesterday. It's the first time we have under Guardiola.

We had the wrong players on the ball. Pep wants as many midfielders on the pitch as possible and he had the chance to live that dream, but kept defensive players on despite Arsenal having no threat. Watching Dias, Walker and Kovacic consistently just play it sideways was tough work. We needed Bernardo, Foden, Gundogan in those positions and could have pushed the defensive players in the box and looked to treat the 2nd half as an aerial bombardment and just look to find space for players who could score from outside the box or cross to bigger players in it.

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

We had the wrong players on the ball. Pep wants as many midfielders on the pitch as possible and he had the chance to live that dream, but kept defensive players on despite Arsenal having no threat. Watching Dias, Walker and Kovacic consistently just play it sideways was tough work. We needed Bernardo, Foden, Gundogan in those positions and could have pushed the defensive players in the box and looked to treat the 2nd half as an aerial bombardment and just look to find space for players who could score from outside the box or cross to bigger players in it.

It really was strange to watch. We play against packed defences every week. It made no sense for our centre backs to play the creative role. Surely Gundo, Foden, Bernie should have dropped deeper. We also missed the clever movement of Rico Lewis. It was almost as if Pep froze. We played into Arsenal's hands. Why didn't Doku and Savinho take on their opponents. They only needed to get through once to open up the defence. There was no risk of a counter attack in the second half. Utterly baffling to watch.

 

[HelloCity]

We lost vs Leeds in April, 2021. Our team was heavily rotated, but the patterns were the same: too many passes around the box, too little penetration.

We should have put many players in the box vs Arsenal and cause chaos so that to score more goals like Stones's. Dias and Gvardiol should have been next to Haaland from the start of 2nd half, with Walker and Akanji taking care of rare counters.

Pmsl

We’d won the league.

 

[alexmcity]

Pmsl

We’d won the league.

No, IIRC we won it several games after that.

 

[HelloCity]

No, IIRC we won it several games after that.

We were miles clear and it was won for all intents and purposes.

It was just a shitty game between champions league fixtures where we rotated loads to be ready for the bigger games.

Sorry, but it’s just a crap example.

 

[alexmcity]

We were miles clear and it was won for all intents and purposes.

It was just a shitty game between champions league fixtures where we rotated loads to be ready for the bigger games.

Sorry, but it’s just a crap example.

In terms of how we played in both games after the opposition got reduced to 10 men, the games and the problems we had were very similar.

Pep never writes a game off, we had to win this and other PL games to secure the title. The suggestion that we didn't take the game vs Leeds seriously is rather clueless.

 

[supercity88]

It really was strange to watch. We play against packed defences every week. It made no sense for our centre backs to play the creative role. Surely Gundo, Foden, Bernie should have dropped deeper. We also missed the clever movement of Rico Lewis. It was almost as if Pep froze. We played into Arsenal's hands. Why didn't Doku and Savinho take on their opponents. They only needed to get through once to open up the defence. There was no risk of a counter attack in the second half. Utterly baffling to watch.

I think Pep was confident the players would find a way through and was still concerned about the counter attack. It's rare you come up against a team that goes down to 10 and doesn't look to have any outlet for a counter though, so we needed to be a bit more risk adverse.

I could understand keeping Walker on for the counter, but Dias should have come off and we could have put on another creative player. Arsenal were leaving a lot of space outside the box, leaving the opportunity to shoot but Dias didn't fancy it at all and Kovacic isn't the best either. Having someone like Gundo or Foden in the same space to shoot would have been far better. Get the big lads around Haaland to help block the Arsenal defenders and create a shooting lane for people outside the box.

Easy in hindsight. Got the equaliser in the end, but should have won the game from that position.

 

[HelloCity]

In terms of how we played in both games after the opposition got reduced to 10 men, the games and the problems we had were very similar.

Pep never writes a game off, we had to win this and other PL games to secure the title. The suggestion that we didn't take the game vs Leeds seriously is rather clueless.

Bringing up a behind closed doors game against Leeds with a heavily rotated team from over 3 years ago when we’d taken our foot off the gas in the league is random as hell.

All teams have games where they struggle to break other teams down and they happen every single season. We had one on Wednesday night before we played Arsenal even which is a much better example.

In reality over the last 12 months, as a unit, we’ve actually struggled to create chances at home against some of the better sides we’ve faced and that’s an issue we need to fix if we want to win the CL again.