Our top ten players since ww2? A tough debate.

petrusha said:
I started watching City in December 1975. That means I never saw Lee, Summerbee or Marsh play for us (though I did attend a match at Maine Road in April 1976 when Lee lined up for Derby), while I witnessed Colin Bell only after his tragic injury.

It's therefore difficult for me to rank these players against their modern day counterparts. In any case, I think comparisons between generations are invidious: all anyone can do is be the best in their own era. And we can try to judge those whom we never saw play by their achievements together with the contemporaneous commentaries of their peers and respected observers of the game.

In doing so, I measure them against a sole criterion: whether they were regarded as rubbing shoulders with the very best of those plying their trade elsewhere in England at the same time. And I find myself feeling that ten is an inadequately restricted number given that I believe it right to include those whose spells in our colours weren't very long. I'm focusing on class and not longevity.

On that score, from the players we had prior to the Mercer-Allison era, I'd mark out Frank Swift (who played all his 19 England internationals post-War so can be included in this list) and Bert Trautmann as each being recognised as comfortably the best in the country in their position. Peter Doherty was, too, but we sold him in December 1945 before the Football League returned after the conflict, so I count him as pre-War only.

To them, I'd add Don Revie and Denis Law (in his first spell - he was past his best when he came back, even if he did notch a deliciously momentous goal). Revie was an England international who was voted Footballer of the Year in his spell with us and who spearheaded a way of playing that was new and radical for the domestic game. Law went on to be a European Footballer of the Year (albeit playing for the scum), being widely acclaimed as world class, and first showed that pedigree with us.

From the Bell-Lee-Summerbee team, I would admit only the holy trinity. There are others (Young, Doyle, Oakes, Book and Pardoe in particular plus those such as Corrigan, Booth and Donachie, who broke into the side later) who are undoubtedly City greats and legends of the club who gave us magnificent service. I'm not sure that they quite meet my criterion of being up with the very best in the land during their era, though, whereas I believe that Colin, Mike and Franny genuinely did.

If we look at the barren years after the 1976 League Cup success, Tony Book's team had a lot of top players and our first eleven mainly featured men who'd played for England or Scotland. But the one I'd put forward as belonging in the highest company was Dave Watson. He was picked twice in the PFA team of the year and was an automatic pick for England throughout his time with us under two different managers. Indubitably an elite centre-half, and quite possibly the best in the land at his peak, he definitely belongs in this list.

in the thirty or so years between Watson's era and the ADUG takeover, I'd single out the following three: Trevor Francis (only with us for a season and injured for a third of it but an absolute thoroughbred); Paul Lake (injury denied us seeing his peak, but he was good enough to attract bids of over £2 million when the transfer record was £2.3 million, which justifies his inclusion) and Nicolas Anelka (suspect attitude but a fabulous striker when on song).

I now have eleven names. From the modern era, I'm going to take a bunch from the modern era to make a post-War twenty-odd greats. And those players are: Kompany, Tevez, David Silva, Yaya, Sergio Aguero, Fernandinho, Stones, De Bruyne, Ederson, Bernardo, Rodri, Dias, Gundogan and Haaland.

I find it difficult to cut this number down. Gundogan, for instance, demands inclusion for stepping up as a goalscorer when we didn't have a striker and for his vital strikers in crucial games in the last two campaigns. Erling may only have had one season with us, but when it was the one that he had, how can he be kept out. Ederson has transformed the way we play and the way others play in his position. And so on.

As I say, I'll leave ranking them to others. There are now full international matches online from the seventies as well as extended highlights from the regular league seasons during that period, which in theory allow us to evaluate players from that era. It's still a fool's errand, in my view. For instance, I've watched quite a lot of Colin Bell, but the games that are currently out there don't show him at his best, aside from the Big Match highlights of a 4-0 win at West Ham in December 1969 in which he and Franny torment the home side and Bobby Moore in particular.

Otherwise, though he's undoubtedly a top player, there's little in these videos to suggest that he's a player who's quite on the level of greats such as De Bruyne or David Silva. But the footage is only a very limited sample of a career and we can only take the word of the posters who watched him play week in, week out. This is really why I'm not comfortable with grading players of different eras against one another, only in absolute terms.

Meanwhile, I'm happy with my excessively long list of 24 really top players. It shows that, despite long periods of dross, we've really been very lucky.

EDIT - Because I managed to fuck up and miss Aguero.
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A great read there, and worth another watch at how good Lee, Bell and Ian Bowyer were that day.

Why did we let the latter leave because he was a key member of Cloughie’s success at Forest at the end of the decade?

 
Stoned Rose said:
Part of the game of course.

Tevez was a much better footballer though.
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People try and compare apples and oranges. Putting the ball in the net is a big part of the game. Better footballer? Better at what? They both had their strengths and were great.

Kun was more valuable than Tevez for City end of.

Anyone putting Tevez above Aguero for City is barking imho. Everyone is entitled to their opinion though.
 
hilts said:
People try and compare apples and oranges. Putting the ball in the net is a big part of the game. Better footballer? Better at what? They both had their strengths and were great.

Kun was more valuable than Tevez for City end of.

Anyone putting Tevez above Aguero for City is barking imho. Everyone is entitled to their opinion though.
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I’m not saying he was more valuable, more important, more likeable, gave us better memories or anything.

I’m saying he was a better overall footballer.

Which he was.
 
Stoned Rose said:
I’m not saying he was more valuable, more important, more likeable, gave us better memories or anything.

I’m saying he was a better overall footballer.

Which he was.
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What makes him better? The only thing Tevez had over Aguero was intensity.
 
Stoned Rose said:
I’m not saying he was more valuable, more important, more likeable, gave us better memories or anything.

I’m saying he was a better overall footballer.

Which he was.
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So you keep saying without defining what makes him a better footballer. Which he wasn't.
 
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