Palestinian Boy Kidnapped and Murdered.

[nijinsky's fetlocks]

Oh look - a Scottish barker tribute act.
No sooner do we lose one loon, another arrives, as if by tragic.

 

[mcmanus]

I don't want my earlier post to come across as defending Hamas, as someone with far left political views I find them every bit as abhorrent as Tories or Ukips (I wouldn't want to be branded as one of PBs 'fucking Hamas sympathisers').

It is the civilian population of Gaza (over 50% of which are children!) who need our support, sympathy, and indignant anger right now.

In early 2011 I read a statement from a group called Gazan Youth, it is very powerful and sums up the thoughts and feelings of the majority of Gazans.

I have reproduced it below.


"Fuck Hamas. Fuck Israel. Fuck Fatah. Fuck UN. Fuck UNWRA. Fuck USA! We, the youth in Gaza, are so fed up with Israel, Hamas, the occupation, the violations of human rights and the indifference of the international community!

"We want to scream and break this wall of silence, injustice and indifference like the Israeli F16s breaking the wall of sound; scream with all the power in our souls in order to release this immense frustration that consumes us because of this fucking situation we live in...

"We are sick of being caught in this political struggle; sick of coal-dark nights with airplanes circling above our homes; sick of innocent farmers getting shot in the buffer zone because they are taking care of their lands; sick of bearded guys walking around with their guns abusing their power, beating up or incarcerating young people demonstrating for what they believe in; sick of the wall of shame that separates us from the rest of our country and keeps us imprisoned in a stamp-sized piece of land; sick of being portrayed as terrorists, home-made fanatics with explosives in our pockets and evil in our eyes; sick of the indifference we meet from the international community, the so-called experts in expressing concerns and drafting resolutions but cowards in enforcing anything they agree on; we are sick and tired of living a shitty life, being kept in jail by Israel, beaten up by Hamas and completely ignored by the rest of the world.

"There is a revolution growing inside of us, an immense dissatisfaction and frustration that will destroy us unless we find a way of channeling this energy into something that can challenge the status quo and give us some kind of hope.

"We barely survived the Operation Cast Lead, where Israel very effectively bombed the shit out of us, destroying thousands of homes and even more lives and dreams. During the war we got the unmistakable feeling that Israel wanted to erase us from the face of the Earth. During the last years, Hamas has been doing all they can to control our thoughts, behaviour and aspirations. Here in Gaza we are scared of being incarcerated, interrogated, hit, tortured, bombed, killed. We cannot move as we want, say what we want, do what we want.

"ENOUGH! Enough pain, enough tears, enough suffering, enough control, limitations, unjust justifications, terror, torture, excuses, bombings, sleepless nights, dead civilians, black memories, bleak future, heart-aching present, disturbed politics, fanatic politicians, religious bullshit, enough incarceration! WE SAY STOP! This is not the future we want! We want to be free. We want to be able to live a normal life. We want peace. Is that too much to ask?"

Gaza Youths Manifesto for Change

Great post and insight pal.

If you and your Mrs do get back to Gaza (is it January?) I would love to hear your stories pal. Seriously getting first hand account from someone there would be brilliant and educate me. Good luck.

 

[No6]

excellent post Crabpaste. I cant imagine the stress and horror of living under such conditions 24/7

Quite. Yet we hear little about this on most mainstream news outlets, but have had countless reports on the stresses and tribulations of Israelis having to flee to state-provided shelters when the early warning sirens sound (two luxuries that Gazans don't have access to).

And please, I'm not suggesting that the fear and stress of the Israeli's is not as worthy as those of the Palestinians, I just use it as another example of skewed western media reporting, which in turn has a poisonous effect on people's interpretation of the conflict.

The salient point of that post was that they are no more enamoured of their own leadership (if you can call it that) than they are of the Israelis.

I often imagine life if I'd been born 20 or so years earlier than I was, to a Jewish family in Eastern Europe rather than in post-war Manchester. How would I cope with the inhuman horror of being in a ghetto or in a concentration camp. So while I understand the Israeli psyche that they will never be passive victims again, I also find it difficult to understand how they don't have at least some empathy with the Palestinians.

This intrigues me actually PB, and as a Jewish gent (you, not I, lol) I'd be interested to hear more on this point. What is the prevailing mood and opinion, amongst the members of the Jewish community that you know, towards Israeli actions against the Palestinians. I have heard and seen Rabbis and ordinary Jews speak out against Israeli occupation and military strikes at various rallies around the world, and I find this particularly heartening. After all, at the end of the day this isn't a religious conflict, it is instead a human rights and civil liberties issue where the line between the opposing sides happens to be drawn along religious lines (a subtle but very important difference, bearing many similarities in this respect to Northern Ireland).

So my question is, what do ordinary Jewish people that you know feel about the plight of ordinary Palestinians, particularly on issues such as the "defense wall" and restrictions of movement, and the ongoing blockade and siege of Gaza? I ask about these particular aspects because they seem to resonate with historical injustices unfortunately perpetrated against Jews around the world at one time or another. This has always intrigued me; how can a group of people whose ancestors have suffered so horribly over the centuries stand by and watch a State created as a homeland for them perpetrate the same injustices on another group of people?

I hope this doesn't come across as facetious or confrontational as it is certainly not meant that way. This thread seems to have taken on a much more conciliatory and constructive tone today, and people seem to be at least finding some common ground.

 

[The Flash]

Oh look - a Scottish barker tribute act.
No sooner do we lose one loon, another arrives, as if by tragic.

You should seek out his previous post on this thread. It got overlooked by most.

The best long term option may be for the Palestine land to be passed over to the Israelis.

This would end all conflict over that landmass.

 

[mcmanus]

What the fucking hell are you on about?

 

[No6]

Oh look - a Scottish barker tribute act.
No sooner do we lose one loon, another arrives, as if by tragic.

You should seek out his previous post on this thread. It got overlooked by most.

The best long term option may be for the Palestine land to be passed over to the Israelis.

This would end all conflict over that landmass.

A man with little to fuck all appreciation of his own country's history and struggles then.

Hashtag FuckOff ;)

 

[dazdon]

It's your turn in the spotlight NorthEastScotlandMCFC.

Time to explain what you meant to the Bluemoon polit bureau :-)

 

[SWP's back]

I don't want my earlier post to come across as defending Hamas, as someone with far left political views I find them every bit as abhorrent as Tories or Ukips (I wouldn't want to be branded as one of PBs 'fucking Hamas sympathisers').

Only on BM can someone compare Hamas to the Tories.

That's what happens when you have discourse with peasants old chap.

 

[west didsblue]

I don't want my earlier post to come across as defending Hamas, as someone with far left political views I find them every bit as abhorrent as Tories or Ukips (I wouldn't want to be branded as one of PBs 'fucking Hamas sympathisers').

It is the civilian population of Gaza (over 50% of which are children!) who need our support, sympathy, and indignant anger right now.

In early 2011 I read a statement from a group called Gazan Youth, it is very powerful and sums up the thoughts and feelings of the majority of Gazans.

I have reproduced it below.


"Fuck Hamas. Fuck Israel. Fuck Fatah. Fuck UN. Fuck UNWRA. Fuck USA! We, the youth in Gaza, are so fed up with Israel, Hamas, the occupation, the violations of human rights and the indifference of the international community!

"We want to scream and break this wall of silence, injustice and indifference like the Israeli F16s breaking the wall of sound; scream with all the power in our souls in order to release this immense frustration that consumes us because of this fucking situation we live in...

"We are sick of being caught in this political struggle; sick of coal-dark nights with airplanes circling above our homes; sick of innocent farmers getting shot in the buffer zone because they are taking care of their lands; sick of bearded guys walking around with their guns abusing their power, beating up or incarcerating young people demonstrating for what they believe in; sick of the wall of shame that separates us from the rest of our country and keeps us imprisoned in a stamp-sized piece of land; sick of being portrayed as terrorists, home-made fanatics with explosives in our pockets and evil in our eyes; sick of the indifference we meet from the international community, the so-called experts in expressing concerns and drafting resolutions but cowards in enforcing anything they agree on; we are sick and tired of living a shitty life, being kept in jail by Israel, beaten up by Hamas and completely ignored by the rest of the world.

"There is a revolution growing inside of us, an immense dissatisfaction and frustration that will destroy us unless we find a way of channeling this energy into something that can challenge the status quo and give us some kind of hope.

"We barely survived the Operation Cast Lead, where Israel very effectively bombed the shit out of us, destroying thousands of homes and even more lives and dreams. During the war we got the unmistakable feeling that Israel wanted to erase us from the face of the Earth. During the last years, Hamas has been doing all they can to control our thoughts, behaviour and aspirations. Here in Gaza we are scared of being incarcerated, interrogated, hit, tortured, bombed, killed. We cannot move as we want, say what we want, do what we want.

"ENOUGH! Enough pain, enough tears, enough suffering, enough control, limitations, unjust justifications, terror, torture, excuses, bombings, sleepless nights, dead civilians, black memories, bleak future, heart-aching present, disturbed politics, fanatic politicians, religious bullshit, enough incarceration! WE SAY STOP! This is not the future we want! We want to be free. We want to be able to live a normal life. We want peace. Is that too much to ask?"

Gaza Youths Manifesto for Change

It's heartening to read that there appears to be a groundswell of opinion in Gaza that is as equally anti-Hamas as it is anti-Israel. It's unfortunate that, due to the corrruption endemic in the PA regime at the time, that Hamas got elected in the first place. Hamas have since demonstrated that they are equally corrupt and rule Gaza by fear and intimidation. They appear to embrace these confrontations with Israel as a means of solidifying their own power base by trying to persuade the population that they are defending them against Israeli aggression when in fact they instigate it in the first place. Sadly the Israeli leadership go along with this to appease the more right wing elements of the ruling coalition. A big step towards peace would happen if the population of Gaza got rid of Hamas and managed to install a government that was more interested in looking after their needs than prolonging a conflict they can't win. With Hamas out of the picture, there would be more chance of Israel making the necessary concessions to achieve a long term solution. The best two chances for peace in the last 20 years happened when Israel had strong leadership who had proven themselves militarily in previous conflicts and hence had sufficient credbility with the population to enable them to take difficult decisions - first with Rabin who was assassinated in 1995 and then with Sharon who suffered a stroke at a time when he had just withdrawn from Gaza and seemed ready to negotiate withdrawal from the West Bank. Unfortunately Netanyahu doesn't appear to have the strength of character and popular support to go against the settler movement and other right wing groupings. Also Hamas won't go quietly and any attempt at getting rid of them would probably start a civil war within Gaza with the civilians suffering the most.

 

[scotty123]

I don't want my earlier post to come across as defending Hamas, as someone with far left political views I find them every bit as abhorrent as Tories or Ukips (I wouldn't want to be branded as one of PBs 'fucking Hamas sympathisers').

It is the civilian population of Gaza (over 50% of which are children!) who need our support, sympathy, and indignant anger right now.

In early 2011 I read a statement from a group called Gazan Youth, it is very powerful and sums up the thoughts and feelings of the majority of Gazans.

I have reproduced it below.


"Fuck Hamas. Fuck Israel. Fuck Fatah. Fuck UN. Fuck UNWRA. Fuck USA! We, the youth in Gaza, are so fed up with Israel, Hamas, the occupation, the violations of human rights and the indifference of the international community!

"We want to scream and break this wall of silence, injustice and indifference like the Israeli F16s breaking the wall of sound; scream with all the power in our souls in order to release this immense frustration that consumes us because of this fucking situation we live in...

"We are sick of being caught in this political struggle; sick of coal-dark nights with airplanes circling above our homes; sick of innocent farmers getting shot in the buffer zone because they are taking care of their lands; sick of bearded guys walking around with their guns abusing their power, beating up or incarcerating young people demonstrating for what they believe in; sick of the wall of shame that separates us from the rest of our country and keeps us imprisoned in a stamp-sized piece of land; sick of being portrayed as terrorists, home-made fanatics with explosives in our pockets and evil in our eyes; sick of the indifference we meet from the international community, the so-called experts in expressing concerns and drafting resolutions but cowards in enforcing anything they agree on; we are sick and tired of living a shitty life, being kept in jail by Israel, beaten up by Hamas and completely ignored by the rest of the world.

"There is a revolution growing inside of us, an immense dissatisfaction and frustration that will destroy us unless we find a way of channeling this energy into something that can challenge the status quo and give us some kind of hope.

"We barely survived the Operation Cast Lead, where Israel very effectively bombed the shit out of us, destroying thousands of homes and even more lives and dreams. During the war we got the unmistakable feeling that Israel wanted to erase us from the face of the Earth. During the last years, Hamas has been doing all they can to control our thoughts, behaviour and aspirations. Here in Gaza we are scared of being incarcerated, interrogated, hit, tortured, bombed, killed. We cannot move as we want, say what we want, do what we want.

"ENOUGH! Enough pain, enough tears, enough suffering, enough control, limitations, unjust justifications, terror, torture, excuses, bombings, sleepless nights, dead civilians, black memories, bleak future, heart-aching present, disturbed politics, fanatic politicians, religious bullshit, enough incarceration! WE SAY STOP! This is not the future we want! We want to be free. We want to be able to live a normal life. We want peace. Is that too much to ask?"

Gaza Youths Manifesto for Change

Have they found their bodies yet?