Pellegrini Thread

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Cheers for posting that Peter. Really interesting piece.

I also remember your post about Pellegrini from last year. Do you fancy digging it out and reposting it?
 
supercity88 said:
I don't think I have ever come across a manager that has been able to keep such a large squad of talented players happy. It is clear from the mentality and results that despite making several changes before games the players are still happy to perform for him. He stood out in the rain for the entire game last night just watching and being hugely involved. He has an ability to make people like him. He always talks highly of the players no matter what their role is in the side. I like his quiet confidence, why not talk about the quadruple - no one expects it, but we should talk about going for it. He just says all the right things!

Actually, Sven was brilliant at keeping all his players happy and, in that regard, I am sure he would have matched Manuel if he had our squad. However, in several other ways, I doubt that he would.<br /><br />-- Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:12 am --<br /><br />
Didsbury Dave said:
Seconded. Petrusha's posts are always worth reading.

Add me to the sycophant list ;-)
 
I wouldn't normally do this but as I've been asked for it - below are 2K words I produced in early March 2013 on the prospect of a City managerial change. I've deleted the name of the poster whose views I was challenging because I don't want this to seem like a 'told you so' post. In any case, I was more qualified and cautious about Manuel than I would be now, and whereas then I'd have opted for Mourinho if I'd been deciding on Roberto's replacement, now I'm quite glad that Txiki didn't do so.

Thanks for the kind words of a few posters above, too.

With respect, I disagree that [a poster who had questioned Pellgrini's track record] is on the money. He dismisses Pellegrini's stint at Real in a single sentence, saying it "doesn't inspire confidence". In fact, while Real may have failed in the Cups in Pellegrini's only season there, they gained what at the time was the club's record points haul in La Liga. They lost out on the title because what was rated by many as the best club team ever did slightly better. I'd suggest that in terms of showing his ability to handle the spotlight and the pressure, he actually came out of it very well.

In my opinion, it's disingenuous to characterise him as someone who can run a corner shop while Mancini can run Tesco. It's worth noting that he's taken charge of big teams in different South American leagues and won trophies with them all. And let's put his time at Real into some kind of perspective: if Barca had been forcibly relegated for breaches of the rules and Real awarded the title after that season, then been able to buy two top Barca players on the cheap to reinforce their new found dominance, maybe we'd be speaking of his record at Real in the same terms as posters on here laud Mancini's successes at Inter.

I appreciate that Mancini had improved Inter before that first title was awarded. But then Pellegrini in his only season improved Real's points haul by 18 points compared to the previous year, moulding into an effective team a disparate, unbalanced squad full of big egos that resulted from a ridiculously haphazard recruitment policy beyond his control.

So Pellegrini is a coach who's performed well (or better than that) wherever he's been, has a reputation for playing attractive football and for being a highly astute tactician. He has experience of being at probably the biggest club in the world. I'm not arguing that he's in the same league as Mourinho in terms of giving us the same trophy-winning potential that Jose would, but he deserves a bit more respect than he's being shown on here, in my view.

However, none of this addresses the context, which is that Txiki Begiristain will play a key role in what happens here. If anyone doubts Txiki's pedigree, read Graham Hunter's Barca, the account of the development of that club over the first decade of the current century. It paints our DoF in an extremely positive light, as the architect in may ways of the current football phenomenon at the Catalan club. He's been recruited by City not to produce a copy of Barca but to create a sustainable model for ongoing success that fits our own club, so we can't expect everything he did to be slavishly replicated. However, the way he went about his job at Barca is obviously going to be a good guide.

In his excellent book, Hunter calls Txiki "robust" and "football bright". The writer then goes on to say that Begiristain has: "... a profile and appetite which will one day adapt perfectly to a leading club in the Premier League - if they are ready to embrace a top-to-bottom conversion in the scouting, coaching and education of their young players". City certainly are willing to embrace that, and we'd have a different DoF if we weren't.

However, having the right first team coach is also crucial. A year ago, Chelsea were reportedly very keen to recruit Begiristain, mainly, it seems, because they thought his presence would persuade Pep Guardiola to take the manager's job. This is what Txiki said last April: "It's not enough to have a technical director who only deals with the academy and grassroots work. He's also got to be able to influence the first team as well and be able to take the vision forward. It's pointless having a technical director getting the grassroots football to go in one direction and develop a style of play if the first-team coach does not agree with those ideas."

Now, I think it's reasonable to suppose that Txiki is at City and not at Chelsea because we'll meet those conditions in which he wants to work. In other words, while the Sheikh (advised by Simon Pearce and Khaldoon, in particular) will make a final decision on the manager, I believe we can expect Txiki to have a major input. (This, of course, assumes that they remain resolved to go down the route of backing Txiki to restructure the entire football operation at the club with a view to serving the long-term interests).

I’ll nail my colours to the mast here: I don’t think Mancini will take us forward from here. I like him, and think he’s the best manager we’ve had since I started watching City in 1975 (actually, I’d probably bracket him together with Howard Kendall). I’m grateful for what he’s done for us. To nick and adapt a line I loved from David Lacey of The Guardian in his report on England’s 5-1 win over the German’s in Munich, just as Bogart and Bergman will always have Paris, so we and Mancini will always have Wembley in April and May 2011, Old Trafford in October 2011, and that amazing day in May 2012.

However, in my view, since approximately Christmas 2011, when other teams started to work out how better to stifle our attacking play, Roberto has shown no real sign of finding a solution to that. (We’re now talking about well over a year in which the glittering form of August to December 2011 has largely been but a distant and flickering memory, which makes that the exception rather than the rule under Mancini). I’m also in the camp that disagrees with those who state he’ll suddenly start to prosper in the Champions League if only he’s given more opportunities to do so. I wouldn’t necessarily berate him for failing to make the knockout stages this season in view of the opponents we faced in our group, but to me it says it all that we didn’t win a single game, taking a single point from an Ajax outfit easily dispatched twice by both Dortmund and Madrid. Nor do I think we can say that, on our performances, the results flattered our opponents.

As an aside, let me note here that I utterly loathe the Champions League: I see it as a tedious, overhyped, bloated wankfest of a tournament that has enriched a small number of big European clubs at the expense of other footballing competitions and while damaging other teams outside the self-serving elite. Nonetheless, it’s crucial to City that we start to do much better than we have in the last couple of years. This applies in terms of the owners’ ambitions, in terms of our prestige and thus ability to attract high class players to join us, and most importantly in terms of the financial considerations now that the era of Financial ‘Fair’ Play is upon us.

I also believe that the stability argument is misplaced here. The received wisdom seems to be that a change in manager also inevitably results in a major overhaul of the playing staff. We, though, are set to have one anyway if reports are to be believed. FFP arguably dictates that overpaid squad members will need to be moved on, which means that this summer would be an ideal time to make a change if there’s one to be made in the next couple of years.

Let’s for a moment here accept my hypothesis a few paragraphs back that the recruitment of Txiki suggests a willingness on the part of the board and owner to be persuaded by any recommendations he may make with regard to the manager’s position. The question is whether Txiki will see Mancini as someone he can work with bearing in mind the remit that the DoF has been given. Obviously here we’re into the realms of guesswork, but my conjecture is that he’ll see Roberto as a fit in terms of the style of football. Save for a few months at the back end of 2011, I suspect that the default method under the Italian will have been too one-paced and ponderous. Nor do I believe that Txiki will see Mancini as someone whose strength will lie in bringing through whatever kids we decide are worth a crack (maybe Guidetti or Rekkik if he improves on his current form away on loan).

Moreover, if Txiki doesn’t believe in Roberto and wants to bring in his own man, then this is the ideal time. In effect, he has an excuse. We’re currently a long way behind United in the league and have regressed in points terms compared to last season. Notwithstanding an absolute woman of a draw, failing to win a single game in Europe was a pretty pitiful effort. In other words, he has an excuse now: if he wants to strike, the iron is probably hot enough. Of course I may be wrong because I don’t have a hotline to Txiki’s thoughts but, in my view, those on here who are suggesting that Mancini is clearly safe at this stage are allowing their hearts to rule their heads.

I’ll nail another set of colours to the mast. If I were in Txiki’s position, I’d go all out to recruit Mourinho. I’ve no doubt that Jose wouldn’t be ideal either in terms of our DoF’s blueprint. However, I consider that the Portuguese offers a potential for success that could electrify our project. Mancini, with his relative failure to answer the way teams have nullified us for more than a year and his underwhelming career record in the Champions League, doesn’t in my view have a compelling case for Txiki to compromise his way of doing things because of what he’ll win us: I’ve no doubt we’d continue to qualify for the CL automatically under him and maybe snatch the odd Cup. However, if Txiki doesn’t view Roberto as the man to put in motion the implementation of the long-term plan, then I don’t see that there’s an argument that the Italian will guarantee short-term success. If you want short-term success, Jose’s your go-to guy.

Of course, Txiki has passed Jose over once before. Those were different circumstances, but maybe he’ll decide to do so again because he sees City’s interests as being served by developing the club in a different way. Personally, based all the reading and research I’ve been able to do, I’m delighted to have Txiki at City. My belief is that, if we all gather together in ten years’ time and see where the club is then, we’ll be glad we hired him. For me, if he eases Mancini through the exit door and if he passes on the chance to mount a serious pursuit of Mourinho as a replacement, then in both cases his track record would make me trust his judgment.

It’s worth looking at the two managerial appointments that Txiki was instrumental in driving at Barca. Both were outstanding successes, and illustrate that he’s not afraid of making picks that other people would consider highly questionable. Not only that, but was vindicated in spectacular fashion on each occasion.

In 2003, Txiki came on board as part of a new regime at a club that had just failed even to qualify for the CL and was losing money hand over fist. Frank Rijkaard was named as new manager. His track record was taking Holland to the semis in Euro 2000 with a squad that also reached the last four of the 1998 World Cup under Guus Hiddink, then being relegated with Sparta Rotterdam in his only season in club football. Post-Barca, he was sacked by Galatasaray early in his second season with the club in mid table, having failed to make the CL the previous campaign. He’s recently been fired by Saudi Arabia, having crashed out of the qualifiers for the 2014 World Cup. But at Barca he won La Liga twice as well as the Champions League during his first three seasons.

In 2007, Txiki advised the Barca board that Rijkaard had, as the argot puts it, ‘lost the dressing room’ and should be replaced, but this didn’t happen for another year. When the change was finally made, it came down to a choice between Mourinho and a former Barca player whose entire coaching experience was a solitary year with the Barcelona B team. Admittedly, he achieved promotion with them, but it was from the Spanish fourth tier. He won a regionalised Catalan league comprising mainly village teams, and then a set of play offs against more village teams. Yet Txiki advocated picking him ahead of Mourinho, and Pep Guardiola’s subsequent trophy haul more than justified that decision.

I personally wouldn’t be surprised if we did go for Pellegrini, and in my opinion that would be a far better choice than people seem to believe. He’s a genuinely good manager, who performed well in his sole year inarguably club football’s biggest job. He was treated shabbily by Real Madrid but has shown his quality again at Malaga. He’d play attractive football, is a cultural fit with the ethos Txiki is seeking to instil and would fit with the DoF model. I’d personally quite excited by the idea of a squad remoulded by Txiki in the summer and coached by Pellegrini, though I appreciate I’m in a minority on this board in holding that view.

But whoever is in charge next season, I think we’ll have a squad that’s better equipped to challenge that we’ve had during this current season. Ultimately, too, with a very astute operator like Begiristain advising the board as to who should be manager, then whether it’s Mancini, Mourinho, Pellegrini or someone else, I’ll put aside my own prejudices and back the incumbent. I think Txiki’s record justifies our backing his assessment.
 
The post is as insightful as I remember and your opinions are almost entirely vindicated now.

A few posts ago I made a point which your post does so much more eloquently: that huge credit has to go to txiki and soriano for this appointment. The whole club is transformed already, and it's only just begun.
 
Didsbury Dave said:
The post is as insightful as I remember and your opinions are almost entirely vindicated now.

A few posts ago I made a point which your post does so much more eloquently: that huge credit has to go to txiki and soriano for this appointment. The whole club is transformed already, and it's only just begun.

I don't previously recall a situation where a technical director was as "in demand" as Txiki was after leaving Barcelona. He was linked with roles at PSG, Chelsea, et al. It's a testament to the pedigree of the guy that Guardiola talks about him as knowing more about football than "anyone else I know".

Everything I envisioned would happen with both the manager and Txiki running the football side of things is happening and we truly are a blessed football club to have Sheikh Mansour and Khaldoon running the club in the manner in which they are.

As an aside, don't think Pellegrini's been given anywhere near enough credit for his tactical acumen. Seems most people are so hung up on the binary arguments about two in midfield or two up front that they don't see the subtle changes he makes throughout games.
 
As long as people are able to reconcile that we can go from a quad to nada in the space of a few weeks, such are the fine margins.

Pellegrini is putting something in place that isn't about the here and now, but something which will stand us in fine stead for years to come on the trophy front.

This time last year, United were also being touted for a quad, it was stupid talk, and so it is now.

Pellegrini is the man who is giving City an identity, not a quick fix.
 
tolmie's hairdoo said:
As long as people are able to reconcile that we can go from a quad to nada in the space of a few weeks, such are the fine margins.

Pellegrini is putting something in place that isn't about the here and now, but something which will stand us in fine stead for years to come on the trophy front.

This time last year, United were also being touted for a quad, it was stupid talk, and so it is now.

Pellegrini is the man who is giving City an identity, not a quick fix.

I think the only people worried about a "quick fix" are the trophy whores who care about little else.

Most of us can see the roots being put in place right now are about a sustained period of consistent success without the need for continual squad overhauls every 18 months.
 
BillyShears said:
Didsbury Dave said:
The post is as insightful as I remember and your opinions are almost entirely vindicated now.

A few posts ago I made a point which your post does so much more eloquently: that huge credit has to go to txiki and soriano for this appointment. The whole club is transformed already, and it's only just begun.

I don't previously recall a situation where a technical director was as "in demand" as Txiki was after leaving Barcelona. He was linked with roles at PSG, Chelsea, et al. It's a testament to the pedigree of the guy that Guardiola talks about him as knowing more about football than "anyone else I know".

Everything I envisioned would happen with both the manager and Txiki running the football side of things is happening and we truly are a blessed football club to have Sheikh Mansour and Khaldoon running the club in the manner in which they are.

As an aside, don't think Pellegrini's been given anywhere near enough credit for his tactical acumen. Seems most people are so hung up on the binary arguments about two in midfield or two up front that they don't see the subtle changes he makes throughout games.

Without doubt he's technically excellent. Last night in the first half we played exactly as you'd expect without any of our creative players: the ball kept coming out wide. Navas was causing a few problems but Milner wasn't because he kept turning on his right foot and looping poor crosses in. Clearly fernandinho is at risk of being overplayed so he brought him off, tucked Milner in and put kolorov out wide. We immediately looked better balanced. I've not been kolorov's biggest fan but it was exactly the sub I wanted.

Nine times out of ten he is making the right changes for the right reasons, whilst constantly juggling 'rest' substitutions for the biggest players.

It speaks volumes that we have been withdrawing strikers and playmakers early all season in games which are over in an hour. But there has been little reduction in intensity and we have scored loads of late goals in these games.
 
tolmie's hairdoo said:
As long as people are able to reconcile that we can go from a quad to nada in the space of a few weeks, such are the fine margins.

Pellegrini is putting something in place that isn't about the here and now, but something which will stand us in fine stead for years to come on the trophy front.

This time last year, United were also being touted for a quad, it was stupid talk, and so it is now.

Pellegrini is the man who is giving City an identity, not a quick fix.

The old Arsenal trick. Often the only team still left in all four competitions, then drop out of all of them in the space of a month.

Regardless of groundwork for future success, we really should be looking to win at least the League cup now. It would be the least this team deserves for the football it's produced. I'd be amazed if any side that has scored as many as we have at this point hasn't gone on to win the league too, but based on the grounds we still have to visit I'm cautiously still typical City on that one.. That said, on the subject of fine margins, wins at Spurs away and Chelsea at home would probably swing the pendulum so far in our favour our competition may just start to slip away.
 
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