Pep’s approach to youth

Is Pep too focussed on winning everything while he is here, that he isn’t considering the longer term future of the club and if it was any other manager, would the bird expect a manager to do more for our youth?
I can’t see it happening because Pep seems to want to win win win but I wish more youth could be given a chance, in order to stop the pattern of excellent young players leaving us.

Pep argued that we’d done everything possible to persuade Brahim and Jadon to stay, but obviously, what was missing was game time.
I think Pep wants to win every trophy, maybe to be the first to get all 5, but surely we can attempt this and still give game time to younger players. Giving them game time to keep them with us is important in the progression of our squad for the next few years, but I fear Pep is only really interested in the here and now, in his own personal success, and not making decisions that are really in the longer term interests of our club.

In cup games against significantly weaker teams we could give game time to 4-6 younger players on rotation alongside back up first team players with an example line up of:
MURIC
DANILO
ZINCHENKO
SANDLER
OTAMENDI
GOMES
GUNDOGAN
FODEN
MAHREZ
JESUS
POVEDA

In premier league games against bottom quarter teams, particularly at home we could give game time to 1-2 youth players alongside 1st choice players and back up players with an example line up of:
EDERSON
WALKER
STONES
SANDLER
MENDY
FERNANDINHO
KDB
FODEN
MAHREZ
AGUERO
JESUS

Those teams should have more than enough to beat teams of that level, and you could almost put Arteta in charge of the team when it comes to those games to give him some front line experience.
It would give first team players more chance to be match fit and firing for bigger games and give the younger players a chance and a belief that they can break through. I’d rather win 2-0 against burton Albion, giving youth players a chance, then 9-0 with players who later in the season lose in a champions league 1/4 final because we’re not quite on it. We might not set another goal scoring record, but I’d have sacrificed that too to have Sancho and Díaz on the edge of our XI now.

I’d rather we focussed our first XI on winning the premier league and Champions league, keeping them at an elite level of fitness for those matches and trusting the youth players in the cups. But my fear is that our switch to having performance related contracts, means we can’t rotate this much anymore, and the first XI want to play in every game to end up walking home with the salary that they feel they deserve or they could go and get it elsewhere.
I see your point, but it's not as straight forward as you think. You can't play youth just to play youth. They have to be good enough. For example I personally never thought Brahim was good enough to be playing for us. He has potential, but he clearly needed to be out playing in loan weekly for a year or 2 before coming back to test his mettle.

But in the end he got into games and had a few good dribbles and fans were bending over backwards to point out the few positives. Yeah,those positives were there, he is fucking talented. We all know that. But should he be starting a game here right now? The answer for me every time he played was NO. His decision making simply wasn't up to par.

That's from lack of playing time and being anxious to impress. Something loans tend to help you resolve.

If it's Messi like youth, he'll play. Otherwise, get in line.

There are internationals like, Sane, Gabriel, Mahrez and Gundogan struggling to get a start. Absent exceptionalism I'm not really for starting youth just to do so. They have to be better first
 
Thankfully Pep isn't as arrogant as you and isn't going to field weakened teams just do people a favor. We have no room to rest in any competition. Pep is here to win trophies and set in stone a precedent of winning and playing football the correct way.

If you are good enough (Foden) then you play, simple as that.

We have international players sat in the stands as it is, never mind having to tell them that they aren't playing so a 18yr old can be given the chance.
 
I think it's only natural that he cannot focus on the academy considering the timeframe he will be the head coach. At Barcelona he worked closely with the coaching staff of the youth teams and would regularly integrate them into the first team - not sure he has the same luxury at City but just my observation. I am sure he cares about it but also recognizes it is not the same as how it is done in the Primera Liga
 
Is Pep too focussed on winning everything while he is here, that he isn’t considering the longer term future of the club and if it was any other manager, would the bird expect a manager to do more for our youth?
I can’t see it happening because Pep seems to want to win win win but I wish more youth could be given a chance, in order to stop the pattern of excellent young players leaving us.

Pep argued that we’d done everything possible to persuade Brahim and Jadon to stay, but obviously, what was missing was game time.
I think Pep wants to win every trophy, maybe to be the first to get all 5, but surely we can attempt this and still give game time to younger players. Giving them game time to keep them with us is important in the progression of our squad for the next few years, but I fear Pep is only really interested in the here and now, in his own personal success, and not making decisions that are really in the longer term interests of our club.

In cup games against significantly weaker teams we could give game time to 4-6 younger players on rotation alongside back up first team players with an example line up of:
MURIC
DANILO
ZINCHENKO
SANDLER
OTAMENDI
GOMES
GUNDOGAN
FODEN
MAHREZ
JESUS
POVEDA

In premier league games against bottom quarter teams, particularly at home we could give game time to 1-2 youth players alongside 1st choice players and back up players with an example line up of:
EDERSON
WALKER
STONES
SANDLER
MENDY
FERNANDINHO
KDB
FODEN
MAHREZ
AGUERO
JESUS

Those teams should have more than enough to beat teams of that level, and you could almost put Arteta in charge of the team when it comes to those games to give him some front line experience.
It would give first team players more chance to be match fit and firing for bigger games and give the younger players a chance and a belief that they can break through. I’d rather win 2-0 against burton Albion, giving youth players a chance, then 9-0 with players who later in the season lose in a champions league 1/4 final because we’re not quite on it. We might not set another goal scoring record, but I’d have sacrificed that too to have Sancho and Díaz on the edge of our XI now.

I’d rather we focussed our first XI on winning the premier league and Champions league, keeping them at an elite level of fitness for those matches and trusting the youth players in the cups. But my fear is that our switch to having performance related contracts, means we can’t rotate this much anymore, and the first XI want to play in every game to end up walking home with the salary that they feel they deserve or they could go and get it elsewhere.


Personally, I want the team to win every cup we're in. Pep has played Zin for most of last season, promoted Foden and includes young kids in the training etc. If the kids are good enough they'll play. Good enough means that they will enhance the team to ensure we win. As a fan, it's great to see Foden and Zin playing but my priority was winning and we've made history for 2 years now. This makes youngsters join the academy because even if they don't get to play for City, they get to play for another good club. I think more will progress, e.g. Tommy Doyle and some of that age group.

'Fraid I trust Pep rather than the clubs fans! No offence meant!!
 
I see your point, but it's not as straight forward as you think. You can't play youth just to play youth. They have to be good enough. For example I personally never thought Brahim was good enough to be playing for us. He has potential, but he clearly needed to be out playing in loan weekly for a year or 2 before coming back to test his mettle.

But in the end he got into games and had a few good dribbles and fans were bending over backwards to point out the few positives. Yeah,those positives were there, he is fucking talented. We all know that. But should he be starting a game here right now? The answer for me every time he played was NO. His decision making simply wasn't up to par.

That's from lack of playing time and being anxious to impress. Something loans tend to help you resolve.

If it's Messi like youth, he'll play. Otherwise, get in line.

There are internationals like, Sane, Gabriel, Mahrez and Gundogan struggling to get a start. Absent exceptionalism I'm not really for starting youth just to do so. They have to be better first
But Brahim has gone to Madrid, and particularly under Zidane, has done very well. Jadon the same. We’re obviously better than both of those sides, but the players are clearly good enough that they could have done latex a bigger part than they were being offered (such as regular cup games, league starts against Huddersfield etc) but we never offered them that. Their improvement would come through being part of those games. Loan options are great, but it’s too late for that when we’ve allowed their contracts to get into a final year.

We can play the line of ‘if it’s messi then he’ll play’ but we’ll keep losing these players, who will become great players and we will wish we hadn’t lost them further down the line.

Foden is an example of it working, but, tbh, he could have been given opportunities against Huddersfield etc much earlier, and if he wasn’t blue through and through, I think there’s a massive chance he’d have left us also.
 
But Brahim has gone to Madrid, and particularly under Zidane, has done very well. Jadon the same. We’re obviously better than both of those sides, but the players are clearly good enough that they could have done latex a bigger part than they were being offered (such as regular cup games, league starts against Huddersfield etc) but we never offered them that. Their improvement would come through being part of those games. Loan options are great, but it’s too late for that when we’ve allowed their contracts to get into a final year.

We can play the line of ‘if it’s messi then he’ll play’ but we’ll keep losing these players, who will become great players and we will wish we hadn’t lost them further down the line.

Foden is an example of it working, but, tbh, he could have been given opportunities against Huddersfield etc much earlier, and if he wasn’t blue through and through, I think there’s a massive chance he’d have left us also.

Can we please stop using Jadon Sancho as an example of a player leaving because of lack of minutes from Guardiola.

Sancho was 16 in Pep's first year, he turned 17 toward the end of that season, it is/was completely unrealistic to expect any minutes for him that season.

It was that summer ( after Pep's first year) he was called up to the first team and decided not to go and forced a transfer out of the club instead.

Now Sancho may have looked at what went before him and was disillusioned by lack of a clear pathway from academy to senior team but that is not on Pep, that's on who came before him.
 
Doesn't get everything right but some youth players believe thier own hype and want too much too soon.

The other way is to have 3 wordies a season breaking through like the rags....let's see how Phil does compared to that hairy lad at the rags & the Scottish one, there's probably another but he's already been shipped out
 
Establishing a culture of winning at a football club is the most important thing. We don’t have any obligation to develop players though we do a great job in this respect, focusing on education and life outside football. They’re lucky to be with us. If they’re good enough and want to stay, they’ll get chances. If they’re not then they leave in a lot better position than they arrived.

The academy business model has already paid for itself and that’s without Foden’s value.
 
Establishing a culture of winning at a football club is the most important thing. We don’t have any obligation to develop players though we do a great job in this respect, focusing on education and life outside football. They’re lucky to be with us. If they’re good enough and want to stay, they’ll get chances. If they’re not then they leave in a lot better position than they arrived.

The academy business model has already paid for itself and that’s without Foden’s value.
But it’s not being most profitable if sancho and Brahim end up getting transfer fees of 70m+. With some more game time, we could have kept them.

I get that most people seem to disagree with me, and maybe I sound like I want a complete overhaul of how we operate, but I’ll have to agree to disagree with most if they think beating burton Albion 9-0 with a very strong team and losing Brahim Díaz, is better than winning 2-0 and keeping him.
 
No one has ever blooded several youth palyers at once, even the lauded crass of 92 were eased in at different times, and then went onto play together as full first teamers,, chenko, had been bought raw and been moulded into a top LB and ALM in the last two years, Foden is slowly being eased in, with vinny gone the two young defenders may also get eased in this coming season.

Sancho left l, but then as talented as he was, he isn't better than sane, sterling or bernardo, and thuugh you could argue we could have gave him a chance he decided to go.
Diaz followed a dream and it hasn't really turned out that well.
Both of them were under 20, for all sancho knows we would have gave him a chance, as we clearly wanted another winger as mahrez arrived the next summer window.

Also let's be honest the teams that tend to bring a lot of youth through are skint and it isn't out of some commitment to the ideal, it's because they cannot afford the wages and fees of the best players for that position.
 

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