PL and CL squad rules: homegrown

[shemnel]

Does anyone have a breakdown of who are homegrown and/or A and B list players are from our squad?

http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/season=2017/clubs/club=52919/squad/index.html

does that help?

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Because he wasn't eligible to play until he was granted a work permit.

Which he didn't get until early January 2015, meaning his 2 year B-list qualification period ends in January 2017, when he'll still be u-21. He becomes club trained the following January.

Denayer is a funny one as his birthday is in June (1995) but he signed in July 2013 so he turned 21 this year about a week before his 3 years were up. The UEFA rules say that to qualify as club trained he must have been registered for a period of three full seasons or of 36 months between the ages of 15 & 21 or the end of the season in which he turns 21.

As his birthday is in the close season then you could argue that the 2015/16 season ended in May, with the last competitive game (which is the UEFA definition) so his 21st birthday falls in the 2016/17 season. If that's the case then he's now club-trained or will be at the end of the season.

 

[aguero93:20]

Me again! :)

According to 2016 FIFA regulations,
"A player may only be registered with one club at a time."
http://resources.fifa.com/mm/docume...tusandtransferofplayersjune2016_e_neutral.pdf
http://resources.fifa.com/mm/docume...tusandtransferofplayersjune2016_e_neutral.pdf
As Gala is a non-affiliate association - being outside England and Wales - the loan cannot contribute to Denayer's HG status.
And yes, same is true for Celtic, my mistake.

I am not aware of any player having HG status after loan spells outside England and Wales.

My conclusion is: Denayer does not count as home grown.

You don't transfer a players registration in order to loan them.

 

[The Footy Diary]

What about "club trained"? I'm thinking here of Harry Kane, I could be wrong but I don't believe he spent three years at Spurs uninterrupted between the age of 15 and 21. Does that mean he can't take a "club trained" spot for Spurs in UEFA competitions?

http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/news/newsid=2277105.html

What is a 'club-trained player'?
One who, between the age of 15 (or the start of the season during which he turns 15) and 21 (or the end of the season during which he turns 21) has been registered with his current club for a period, continuous or not, of three entire seasons or 36 months. This is irrespective of his nationality and age.

Harry Kane (DOB - 28/7/93) would have to have 36 months between July 2008 to June 2014 where he's registered with Spurs. During this time, he had loan spells at Millwall, Leyton Orient, Norwich and Leicester totaling only 24 months of that time and spend the rest of that time with Spurs.

 

[Rolee]

http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/news/newsid=2277105.html



Harry Kane (DOB - 28/7/93) would have to have 36 months between July 2008 to June 2014 where he's registered with Spurs. During this time, he had loan spells at Millwall, Leyton Orient, Norwich and Leicester totaling only 24 months of that time and spend the rest of that time with Spurs.

Thanks for that, I was under the impression that he spent more time out on loan.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Which he didn't get until early January 2015, meaning his 2 year B-list qualification period ends in January 2017, when he'll still be u-21. He becomes club trained the following January.

Denayer is a funny one as his birthday is in June (1995) but he signed in July 2013 so he turned 21 this year about a week before his 3 years were up. The UEFA rules say that to qualify as club trained he must have been registered for a period of three full seasons or of 36 months between the ages of 15 & 21 or the end of the season in which he turns 21.

As his birthday is in the close season then you could argue that the 2015/16 season ended in May, with the last competitive game (which is the UEFA definition) so his 21st birthday falls in the 2016/17 season. If that's the case then he's now club-trained or will be at the end of the season.

The problem we have with Denayer, is whether UEFA view owning the player as sufficient 'eligiblility' or whether he has to be actually registered to play for the club during that period rather than on loan. I have always assumed that nobody in their right mind would have loaned out a player of his potential under those circumstances, thus destroying his chances of becoming a 'club trained' player (as we have ZERO club trained players) but it's actually possible that not only have we fucked up his coaching for two years, but we have also fucked up his eligibility to take a 'homegrown' place of any kind.

If that's true, then it's likely his career at City is effectively over before it has started & has been since he went to Celtic, as we can't afford to use a senior place in the 17 for him, once he becomes over 21. The same with all the African lads we have signed.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/news/newsid=2277105.html



Harry Kane (DOB - 28/7/93) would have to have 36 months between July 2008 to June 2014 where he's registered with Spurs. During this time, he had loan spells at Millwall, Leyton Orient, Norwich and Leicester totaling only 24 months of that time and spend the rest of that time with Spurs.

Loaned players are still registered with their original club.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Loaned players are still registered with their original club.

This is what I have always believed, but I can't find any clarification whatsoever & the only thing I've ever seen is a bloke on here posted referencing UEFA going by FIFA's definition, which, if true, means they are not.

 

[St.Pauli support]

You don't transfer a players registration in order to loan them.

Agreed, and I think I never said so. We should stick to the terms in place as the topic is kind of complex.

But well, in fact it's quite easy:

Player A has a contract with club A at association A. He needs to be registered for his club at his association to be eligible for matches.

If this player A wants to play for club B at association B - no matter if on loan or permanently - he needs a contract first.
To be eligible for club B he needs to be registered at association B. Therefore club A has to sent an ITC (international transfer certificate) to club B, which will pass on the ITC to association B for registry together with the new contract and the player passport.

On a player passport you can see the list of clubs the player was registered for since being 12 years old
(in order to pay former clubs a training compensation or solidarity contribution before the player is turning 23).
On top of all this you have the FIFA rule: ""A player may only be registered with one club at a time."

How could a player be still registered for club A although he has to be registered for club B to be eligible in a different association? How?
The ITC is giving away the right to be registered at a different association.

Courtois at Chelsea is a well known example.
The Belgian - born 1992 - joined Chelsea in 2011. He joined Atletico Madrid on loan till 2014. After turning 21 he does not count as homegrown.
http://thechels.info/wiki/First_team_squad

Any example of a player on homegrown status after being on overseas loan would be very welcome!
I am not aware of any.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

I've asked a sports lawyer I know so it'll be interesting to see what he says.

However FA rules say that if a player is on a long term (i.e. season long) loan, he can be recalled if his parent club agrees a transfer to another club. So the parent club must hold his registration.