PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

[BringBackSwales]

What about that time you said I was ‘one of’ the smartest posters on Bluemoon?

I suppose you were technically correct!

Only one of?

 

[oakiecokie]

..... to safety critical systems where the worst case scenarios are treated with the highest priority. If we face a deduction of say 12 points per season, then in each of those years we would have used an unfair sporting advantage to exclude other clubs from ECL revenue, ie instead of Europa revenue. That would be what 30M x 10 ?. There is NO limit on financial sanctions. Yes we signed up to rules but are those rules being applied fairly, given we actually won at CAS ?

Stop yer flapping you wet fanny.

 

[bluemc]

I'm happy to be proven wrong, but has the mayor of Manchester been as vocal at any point regarding City's treatment?

I get that he's a Scouser but a hugely successful football team in the city which he governs over is a big thing (massive, some might say).

 

[Paladin]

I think your missing the point many legal and accounting experts on here have said several times that the accusations are in affect criminal though the Premier League have not explicitly stated as such I also haven’t seen any denials. This goes well beyond breaking the rules of the club. What’s more to prove breaking the rules they would probably need access to information they do not have from the other end I.e Etihad or to reinterpret the law around what is correct account practice e.g fair value and related party

So it's going to be difficult to prove, so we'll be likely to win. Sounds ok to me.

 

[Paladin]

I get your point, yes it's a members club but surely they cant find you guilty of fraud, a criminal offence.

The people and companies the pl are saying have fiddling the books if found guilty are big players on the world stage. I don't think they would sit back and allow the pl American owners to get away with it.

The commission isn't set up to find us guilty of fraud. We only stand accused of breaking PL rules. That's the only thing commission will look at.

 

[Fordyboy46]

As I said in a previous post, I cannot see how City can have a fair hearing when every Tom, Dick and Harriet across the media has already pronounced us guilty and passed sentence.

There is a reason why, in proper trials before the King's courts, the media are not allowed to do this. Imagine being accused of (say) murder and every paper, every online source spent months saying how guilty you are and how you deserve 50 years inside. You would not stand a chance before a jury, which is why this sort of trial by media is illegal and called contempt of court. The judge would throw the case out of court if such a prejudice arose.

The process is a fucking disgrace.

Can u imagine the shit being written when our case is about to be heard, it will be off the scale. Back page headlines with GUILTY splashed all over them, pleading with the prem league to charge us etc etc.
They made their minds up last February when the story broke

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

The commission isn't set up to find us guilty of fraud. We only stand accused of breaking PL rules. That's the only thing commission will look at.

Fraud is intrinsic to the substantive charges though. There is no other way to better characterise that part of what is alleged than it being fraudulent.

 

[Paladin]

Andy Burnham has weighed in now, claiming the PL are guilty of an abuse of process re: Everton, for, in layman's terms, moving the goalposts half way through the investigation.

The outcome of this (Everton and City) could see the PL undermined and discredited, rather than any club punished - a PL own goal.

I partially heard this. I can't see how they moved the goalposts for Everton. The rules were in place well before Everton got into trouble, and the PL gave them plenty of warnings that they were in danger of breaching them.

 

[dadnlad]

I partially heard this. I can't see how they moved the goalposts for Everton. The rules were in place well before Everton got into trouble, and the PL gave them plenty of warnings that they were in danger of breaching them.

think he's talking about masters magic point deduction formula

 

[deano ou812]

I'm happy to be proven wrong, but has the mayor of Manchester been as vocal at any point regarding City's treatment?

I get that he's a Scouser but a hugely successful football team in the city which he governs over is a big thing (massive, some might say).

If that is all correct about trying to introduce new rules in the middle of the process they are in big trouble,but is anyone actually surprised about it,hopefully City are watching this now ..

 

[Chi-town blues]

the kangaroo's can still ignore it though

They had their moment but I’m not too worried by the look of things here.

 

[Paladin]

I would like to agree but the Everton case does not fill me with confidence. The chairman had a clear interest in a points deduction.
In our case, Rosen is not just an ST holder: he is a prominent member of one of our main accusers. Out of all the KCs available, how come the PL chose him?

In respect of Rosen, you have to trust that such a well respected KC isn't going to tarnish his own reputation by showing a bias when it comes to judging the evidence. There are highly experienced lawyers on both sides of the argument whose presence will demand a fair hearing and outcome.

In the Everton case, the PL and the commission both agreed that a sporting sanction was appropriate, because of the nature of the charges and the possible benefit Everton gained from their breaches of the rules.

The Bluemoon experts on our charges say that our charges give us minor financial advantages that would not have caused FFP breaches of the magnitude of Everton's, and should not lead to sporting sanctions.

 

[BringBackSwales]

I'm happy to be proven wrong, but has the mayor of Manchester been as vocal at any point regarding City's treatment?

I get that he's a Scouser but a hugely successful football team in the city which he governs over is a big thing (massive, some might say).

Too busy stopping us parking within walking distance of our home ground, Scouse ****

 

[Paladin]

Fraud is intrinsic to the substantive charges though. There is no other way to better characterise that part of what is alleged than it being fraudulent.

Agreed, but the commission will still only judge on breaches of PL rules. If they find us guilty, then other, criminal charges could follow from other agencies. As we have discussed though, it is a high bar they are trying to get over.

 

[Paladin]

think he's talking about masters magic point deduction formula

That's supposed to be based on a set of guidelines, which aren't in the public domain, as far as I can see. But the commission made a point of saying it was ignoring the PL recommended guidelines when applying their punishment.

 

[Gordyola]

This is what worries me.
We are sitting ducks and there doesn't seem to be a way out to a fair hearing, if going to court is not a path we can take.

The hearing will be fair what won’t be is if we get found guilty with a probable draconian sentence if that happens KAM will go nuclear might be fun but the end of the PL as we know it

 

[BringBackSwales]

I hope burnham didn’t write that letter whilst working and being paid as mayor of Manchester. Mind you a scouser working, what am I thinking

 

[Gordyola]

I agree with your EFC calcs, but we are facing a x 10 sanction, which if applied would easily lead to relegation. The cost of that plus loss of ECL revenue plus unimaginable compensation claims would run into hundreds of millions. The Everton ruling has changed everything, our next move will be an application to the High Court any day soon. The risks are too high to leave it to Richard Masters’s kangaroo court. We may as well spend the next Xmillion pounds on legal costs for a real court.
So I want to see the prospect of Richard Master’s facing the lawyers of Etihad Airaways etc in a court of Law and under oath explaining exactly what his compelling evidence of corruption actually is.

There are no punishment guideline apparently unlimited the EFL have the ones the commission used Dick Masterbaters in evidence said the PL wanted a 12 point punishment which the commission choice to ignore

 

[MillisleBlue]

Can u imagine the shit being written when our case is about to be heard, it will be off the scale. Back page headlines with GUILTY splashed all over them, pleading with the prem league to charge us etc etc.
They made their minds up last February when the story broke

The very definition of clear and organised. I'm sure that those involved won't be swayed by an orchestrated, relentless and one-sided media campaign against our Club...






...oh wait.

 

[Gordyola]

My use of the term "kangaroo" may trigger legal professionals however many have posted on here that City's fate will be determined by the "interpretation" and "judgements" of just three individuals. In addition, the IC where the standard of proof is less than a court of Law means the risks for City in this context ie existential, are too high. The prospect of relegation, loss of ECL revenue and compensation costs to N other clubs is existential. If the case can be heard in a Court of Law re false accounting we should try that option to raise the required standard of proof.

Correct re the burden of proof However the KCs will want to be absolutely certain that the evidence is 100% correct it’s not some corner shop they are judging upon the people involved couldn’t be any more powerful and influential with stellar reputations The KCs have worked hard for their reputations and will not be prepared to damage them