PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

You see. Your issue is you're so consumed with your own confusing opinion, you DON'T listen.

Can you show me where I've said UEFA or the PL aren't accusing City of fraud? I'll wait... ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠⊙⁠_⁠ʖ⁠⊙⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

For a start, this bit:
Essentially, what City are accused of isn't even illegal in UK Law, only in the PL's rules which they state are governed by UK Law.

So by definition, if the criminal statute of limitations of 6 months was applied to our charge, we'd have no case to answer.

So in the space of two paragraphs in the same post, you managed to completely misrepresent how the 1980 Limitation Act and the 1968 Theft Act are applicable to the PL's case against City. Way to go.

There are more, including many irrelevant analogies that completely miss the point, and quite frankly, I haven't got the strength. Also, I have already abandoned my New Year's resolution not to engage with you on any legal issues. On the first day, already.

Happy New Year by the way. All Blues should have a great year even if we disagree on almost everything. :)
 
For a start, this bit:


So in the space of two paragraphs in the same post, you managed to completely misrepresent how the 1980 Limitation Act and the 1968 Theft Act are applicable to the PL's case against City. Way to go.

There are more, including many irrelevant analogies that completely miss the point, and quite frankly, I haven't got the strength. Also, I have already abandoned my New Year's resolution not to engage with you on any legal issues. On the first day, already.

Happy New Year by the way. All Blues should have a great year even if we disagree on almost everything. :)
I honestly believe you're being purposely obtuse. I stated:

Essentially, what City are accused of isn't even illegal in UK Law, only in the PL's rules which they state are governed by UK Law.

Let me walk you through it... "Essentially, what City are accused of isn't even illegal in UK Law".

To my knowledge, the substantive charge is that they believe the "His Highness" mentioned in the stolen emails is Sheikh Mansour, & that he funneled equity funding through a bridging loan awarded to Etisalat from Jaber Mohammed, to Manchester City, disguised as Etisalat sponsorship.

Outside of the stolen emails & in terms of evidence, they've produced squat.

As I've previously stated, it doesn't matter what UEFA/PL accuse us of, proving it is a totally different matter.

Then I pointed out to you, is owner equity funding illegal in UK Law? No.

Is it illegal to pay an invoice on behalf of a third party? No.

Even if we did disguise owner equity funding as Etisalat sponsorship, would we have had to do this if UEFA hadn't introduce FFP as a blatant mechanism to stop City? No.

Again, you've introduced several frankly ridiculous episodes of hair splitting, I presume in an attempt to remain relevant in this conversation eg: If SM gave City equity funding, but we entered it into the ledger as sponsorship for another company, that's fraud?

I suppose technically yes, but there's a few problems your hair splitting has thrown up.

1. If not for FFP, why would SM need to disguise his owner equity funding in the first place? If he owned ANY other business in the UK, would this even be an issue?

2. Did Manchester City have a legal sponsorship contract with Etisalat, & did we discharged our duties to Etisalat as contracted?

You keep getting yourself hung up on what's in front of you, without considering the vast majority of the issues lies beyond the murky facade.

Again, UEFA/G14 can accuse us of what they like.

A. We had a sponsorship contract with Etisalat.

B. City issued an invoice with payment terms

C. Etisalat paid part of the invoice by using a third party bridging loan facility provided by UAE based financier, Jaber Mohammed.

D. City's invoice & payment terms were satisfied.

E. City carry out the sponsorship service for Etisalat in accordance with the contract.

F. City got paid. Etisalat got their service. The end!

I'm well aware of what UEFA & the PL are accusing City of in accordance to THEIR private members club rules, but as per the above A - F, where's the fraud?

And to sum up, what the PL & UEFA are alleging doesn't stack up because there was a sponsorship deal in place with Etisalat, so their only squabble is did Sheikh Mansour disguise equity funding as Etisalat sponsorship against their private members club rules?

City say no, & have the contracts & bank transfers to prove it.

Now perhaps you will finally accept, it matters little what UEFA/PL accuse us of. It doesn't stack up in UK Law, & if not for FFP (which has zero bearing in UK criminal Law & is only applicable in civil law based on breach of contract, which they so far don't have a hope in hell of proving), would we even need to be creative with our accounting?

I think it best for all that you re-avow your New Year Resolution, & go find something more productive to occupy yourself with. ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯
 
I honestly believe you're being purposely obtuse. I stated:



Let me walk you through it... "Essentially, what City are accused of isn't even illegal in UK Law".

To my knowledge, the substantive charge is that they believe the "His Highness" mentioned in the stolen emails is Sheikh Mansour, & that he funneled equity funding through a bridging loan awarded to Etisalat from Jaber Mohammed, to Manchester City, disguised as Etisalat sponsorship.

Outside of the stolen emails & in terms of evidence, they've produced squat.

As I've previously stated, it doesn't matter what UEFA/PL accuse us of, proving it is a totally different matter.

Then I pointed out to you, is owner equity funding illegal in UK Law? No.

Is it illegal to pay an invoice on behalf of a third party? No.

Even if we did disguise owner equity funding as Etisalat sponsorship, would we have had to do this if UEFA hadn't introduce FFP as a blatant mechanism to stop City? No.

Again, you've introduced several frankly ridiculous episodes of hair splitting, I presume in an attempt to remain relevant in this conversation eg: If SM gave City equity funding, but we entered it into the ledger as sponsorship for another company, that's fraud?

I suppose technically yes, but there's a few problems your hair splitting has thrown up.

1. If not for FFP, why would SM need to disguise his owner equity funding in the first place? If he owned ANY other business in the UK, would this even be an issue?

2. Did Manchester City have a legal sponsorship contract with Etisalat, & did we discharged our duties to Etisalat as contracted?

You keep getting yourself hung up on what's in front of you, without considering the vast majority of the issues lies beyond the murky facade.

Again, UEFA/G14 can accuse us of what they like.

A. We had a sponsorship contract with Etisalat.

B. City issued an invoice with payment terms

C. Etisalat paid part of the invoice by using a third party bridging loan facility provided by UAE based financier, Jaber Mohammed.

D. City's invoice & payment terms were satisfied.

E. City carry out the sponsorship service for Etisalat in accordance with the contract.

F. City got paid. Etisalat got their service. The end!

I'm well aware of what UEFA & the PL are accusing City of in accordance to THEIR private members club rules, but as per the above A - F, where's the fraud?

And to sum up, what the PL & UEFA are alleging doesn't stack up because there was a sponsorship deal in place with Etisalat, so their only squabble is did Sheikh Mansour disguise equity funding as Etisalat sponsorship against their private members club rules?

City say no, & have the contracts & bank transfers to prove it.

Now perhaps you will finally accept, it matters little what UEFA/PL accuse us of. It doesn't stack up in UK Law, & if not for FFP (which has zero bearing in UK criminal Law & is only applicable in civil law based on breach of contract, which they so far don't have a hope in hell of proving), would we even need to be creative with our accounting?

I think it best for all that you re-avow your New Year Resolution, & go find something more productive to occupy yourself with. ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

More productive than getting you to admit you were wrong. Most definitely. But one last try.

You have just said:

That's fraud?

I suppose technically yes, but there's a few problems your hair splitting has thrown up.

So you agree that the PL has effectively accused the club of fraud.

What are you whittling on about?
 
More productive than getting you to admit you were wrong. Most definitely. But one last try.

You have just said:



So you agree that the PL has effectively accused the club of fraud.

What are you whittling on about?
Where have I ever said they didn't accuse City of fraud? The excerpt you highlighted says no such thing. ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠⊙⁠_⁠ʖ⁠⊙⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

What the PL are apparently accusing City of is disguising owner equity funding as Etisalat sponsorship. YOU said this amounts to THEM accusing us of fraud. To my knowledge, the PL's never used th term 'fraud', but that's what their charges amount to. Now where have I disagreed with this?

Fraud is a legal term which amounts to accusations of statutory illegality & criminality. The moment the PL use that term, they lose control of this process & it goes legal to a place where their bullshit won't stick. Hence why they carefully use the language of "breaches" to keep this whole farce in the sphere of UEFA & the Premier League.

What I've consistently done is compared UK Law to the PL's rules & state they don't apply in UK criminal law, because if they did, the SFO, HMRC, FCA & the local Plod would've already felt our collar. They haven't.

Essentially, is what City are being accused of illegal in UK Law, or merely illegal in PL Rules? This is the part where you fan away the fog & cut to the chase in the matter.

You're getting hung up on minutae when there are far bigger fundamental issues beyond the facade.

The PL & UEFA have offered nothing but a sentence in a stolen email as proof, which City claim was taken out of context, albeit this was time barred by CAS.

We've done nothing wrong in UK Law, & have adjusted our business in response to UEFA's attempts to neuter City with their corrupt FFP.

Hopefully this is now clear in your mind.
 
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Where have I ever said they didn't accuse City of fraud? The excerpt you highlighted says no such thing. ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠⊙⁠_⁠ʖ⁠⊙⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

What the PL are apparently accusing City of is disguising owner equity funding as Etisalat sponsorship. YOU said this amounts to THEM accusing us of fraud. To my knowledge, the PL's never used th term 'fraud', but that's what their charges amount to. Now where have I disagreed with this?

Fraud is a legal term which amounts to accusations of statutory illegality & criminality. The moment the PL use that term, they lose control of this process & it goes legal to a place where their bullshit won't stick. Hence why they carefully use the language of "breaches" to keep this whole farce in the sphere of UEFA & the Premier League.

What I've consistently done is compared UK Law to the PL's rules & state they don't apply in UK criminal law, because if they did, the SFO, HMRC, FCA & the local Plod would've already felt our collar. They haven't.

Essentially, is what City are being accused of illegal in UK Law, or merely illegal in PL Rules? This is the part where you fan away the fog & cut to the chase in the matter.

You're getting hung up on minutae when there are far bigger fundamental issues beyond the facade.

The PL & UEFA have offered nothing but a sentence in a stolen email as proof, which City claim was taken out of context, albeit this was time barred by CAS.

We've done nothing wrong in UK Law, & have adjusted our business in response to UEFA's attempts to neuter City with their corrupt FFP.

Hopefully this is now clear in your mind.
So we all agree that we are being accused of breaking premier league rules we all agree we all agree we are innocent we all agree what we are being accused of amounts to fraud but what your saying is we are not actually accused of fraud because ? They haven’t used the word or brought the police in ? Let’s say you’re right for moment and let’s leave aside the hairsplitting. I am sure I could come up with some analogy about stealing from a private club could be called something else etc by the club and then it wouldn’t be stealing but of course it would still be stealing and a crime etc. but let’s not go there what’s your actual point in relation to our case. That unless they use the word fraud time bar applies or the charges disappear what ?
 

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