Exactly, if the process isn't independent then it doesn't have any standing because how can it be deemed fair? The Premier League is a football organisation, it isn't an independent auditor or anything else.I have always thought it a problem where a single body runs a competition and also acts as the regulator. UEFA are the past masters at manipulating the rules to change the relative fortunes of clubs in their competitions. The PL is following suit. The independent regulator is a must.
Key here” conflict of interest “ and this case can be dragged on forever.Exactly, if the process isn't independent then it doesn't have any standing because how can it be deemed fair? The Premier League is a football organisation, it isn't an independent auditor or anything else.
A really interesting point is the Premier League is owned 21 ways where each year every league club is given a share and the FA holds the final share. There is therefore a massive conflict of interest in that actually city have a stake in the very organisation that we're being investigated by, we can even vote against punishing ourselves.
The Premier League gets around this conflict by having a three person independent panel conduct breach investigations but who is this panel appointed by and what expertise do they hold? Nobody knows. They also can only consider any evidence put in front of them which might not be so damning but again nobody actually knows.
At the moment we have to accept this process for what it is however the big challenge will come afterwards if the end result is bad. Everything then comes down to litigation and legal process which I can see being dragged out for 10+ years. The other clubs will have to pay millions in costs to defend against that.
With this in mind and given the unlimited resources that city have, personally if I was the Premier League and city offered to settle the matter quietly and privately then I'd settle!
Wouldn’t surprise me if this is settled soon as the IC sits or before. The smear campaign has worked a treat. Another year of smears may be the limit of what they can achieve.Exactly, if the process isn't independent then it doesn't have any standing because how can it be deemed fair? The Premier League is a football organisation, it isn't an independent auditor or anything else.
A really interesting point is the Premier League is owned 21 ways where each year every league club is given a share and the FA holds the final share (or maybe it's just the 20 clubs, not sure). There is therefore a massive conflict of interest in that actually city have a stake in the very organisation that we're being investigated by, we can even vote against punishing ourselves.
The Premier League gets around this conflict by having a three person independent panel conduct breach investigations but who is this panel appointed by and what expertise do they hold? Nobody knows. They also can only consider any evidence put in front of them which might not be so damning but again nobody actually knows.
At the moment we have to accept this process for what it is however the big challenge will come afterwards if the end result is bad. Everything then comes down to litigation and legal process which I can see being dragged out for 10+ years. The other clubs will have to pay millions in costs to defend against that.
With this in mind and given the unlimited resources that city have, personally if I was the Premier League and city offered to settle the matter quietly and privately then I'd settle!
No - if it is all proven and all appeals/challenges are exhausted the club won't be suing anyone
Some tremendous quality contributions on here, genuinely a privilege to read them..
I'm hanging in there with the legal and accounting points with a reasonable grasp but one thing I would like to know is at what point will city get to know what the evidence of these alleged frauds, fictitious sponsorships actually is.
Is it a case of going to the hearing and waiting to see what they come up with or must everything be declared in advance so you have a good idea what is going to be said.
I'm guessing it's the latter but there must be adequate time scales I suppose.
Without getting into too much detail when will city know all this?
No - if it is all proven and all appeals/challenges are exhausted the club won't be suing anyone
I thought we cooperated fully with CAS, who noted that if we’d given to UEFA what we gave to them there’d have been no basis for UEFA to pursue the chargesAm I right in thinking we not only declined to hand over requested documents to UEFA, but also, after they asked for them, CAS, who then decided of their volition to proceed without them……or did we only give CAS some of what they asked for, or something like that?
If that was the case then it doesn’t exactly give me a warm fuzzy feeling that this time the tribunal will be dealing with a full deck, including the cards we declined to produce last time around!
Or have I imagined all of that?!
What what’s app chat ?you can see whats coming from whatsapp group " what have these multi nation organisations got to hide why wont they open books for kangroo court "
What do you mean about Chelsea and UEFAInteresting how UEFA just accepted Chelsea's wrong doings (which are possibly more serious than those they charged us with), choosing to simply fine them and say 'don't do it again'. Whereas they almost sent themselves broke and insane trying to send us down.
They entered into a settlement with UEFA of £8m for FFP breaches recently. PL now understood to be investigating.What do you mean about Chelsea and UEFA
NoAny chance that Newton can start a civil action in the UK courts against the PL if the finding is harmful to Mansour's reputation/investment?
It would be hugely ironic that the 2 most reluctant English clubs out of the 6 who signed up to the ESL could end up being the ones who kick start the whole process again over here. I must admit that whatever shit is going on with these charges, I’m still against the idea of a Super League (unless it was a fairer alternative to the Champions League that is). Give me those wet Tuesday nights in Stoke over playing Barcelona and Real Madrid on repeat every few weeks. The latter is supposed to be an occasional reward for coming out on top against the likes of the former, not a regular occurrence several times a season.If and that’s a big if the Premier League nailed City and Chelsea to a door and demoted both clubs down a few league it would be problematic for the Premier League. The two most successful clubs of the last decade would be then outside of the legal remit to stop the super league starting. Madrid, Barcelona and Juventus would love this as it means they can resign from Uefa club competitions and push on with the new tournament with 2 out of the 6 teams originally signed up from the Premier League.
The four remaining teams being United, Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs wouldn’t have a choice but to push to resign from the premier league and UEFA competitions as the best teams in Europe would be playing elsewhere. Mansour could probably bank roll it and take away the original American influence on who the stakeholders were and who financed it.
All hypothetical stuff but the Premier League is playing a dangerous game that could kill its golden goose if they press ahead with trying to destroy City.
The way I see it is this - City didn’t trust handing over sensitive information to UEFA as the club felt that it could fall into the hands of our competitors, but we trusted handing it over to CAS.I thought we cooperated fully with CAS, who noted that if we’d given to UEFA what we gave to them there’d have been no basis for UEFA to pursue the charges
I knew Pep had a planNow that we are shit again, erm do the charges now go away? -:)
Relegate ourselves before the league gets the chance? Sounds legit!I knew Pep had a plan
Documents are not submitted to CAS/the IC. Documents go to and from the claimant (UEFA and the PL) and the respondent (City) - in this mainly to the claimant from the respondent. The parties then use those documents to make their case to the tribunal (CAS or the IC in the PL case). The tribunal panel is extremely unlikely to look at any document not specifically pointed out to it either in submission or during the trial (say in cross examination). UEFA had more docs by the time CAS came along but the core of the case was on the small number of emails that were leaked. The PL will have many more documents I suspect.Am I right in thinking we not only declined to hand over requested documents to UEFA, but also, after they asked for them, CAS, who then decided of their volition to proceed without them……or did we only give CAS some of what they asked for, or something like that?
If that was the case then it doesn’t exactly give me a warm fuzzy feeling that this time the tribunal will be dealing with a full deck, including the cards we declined to produce last time around!
Or have I imagined all of that?!
Yes, you‘re probably right. I just had it in my head that we had been asked to produce some documents (perhaps by UEFA rather than CAS?) and by the time the CAS hearing began we had still not given UEFA everything they’d asked for, but CAS ruled the hearing would go ahead regardless.I thought we cooperated fully with CAS, who noted that if we’d given to UEFA what we gave to them there’d have been no basis for UEFA to pursue the charges