PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

[Lord Blue]

Its amazing that after what this club has set out to achieve and what is has achieved that people still criticise and doubt it for refusing to shoot down and argue with assasanine idiots throwing baseless accusations, they have already decided we are guilty and nothing anyone says especially the club is going to change that so just laugh in the full knowledge that the club is playing chess while these fuckers are playing tiddlywinks.

This is where I’m at too. I’m not sure that going after various media would be very classy. In fact it would be a very red shirt thing to do. But then I’ve always been a turn the other cheek type.

 

[Newman Noggs]

When the richest, most powerful and commercially successful league in the world appears to be so, inexplicably, hell-bent on self-destruction, I think it's worth, at least, considering the possibility that, far from being incompetence, it's actually a deliberate act of sabotage from within.

After all, if we, and Martin Samuel, could see the utter shambles that would Inevitably result, why couldn't the architects of the whole disaster.

If we consider who would benefit from the collapse of the PL, who would love to see the PL implode, the answer has to be La Liga, Serie A and the Bundesliga. So we're talking, primarily, the most powerful clubs in those leagues Madrid, Barca, Athletico the Milan clubs, Juventus, Bayern and Dortmund. Essentially, those leagues' representatives in the old G14. Apart from the German clubs, that's, also, essentially, the clubs refusing to give up on the ESL. But the ESL is nothing without the most powerful English clubs to carry it through and structure of the PL and, specifically the voting structure of the PL, means that Arsenal, united, liverpool and Spurs could be out-voted or, worse, in theory, voted out. We've recently seen what some media sources, most notably, Sky, describe as a "rebellion" where some clubs had the audacity to vote against the "associated party" rule changes. In short, there are signs that the other clubs are beginning to flex their muscles. So, change the voting rights. Liverpool and united were frustrated in their attempts to do just that in Project Big Picture where, in association with Rick Parry, their PL puppet, Richard Masters', equivalent in the EFL, they attempted to tie increased payments to the EFL to increased voting rights for 9 certain clubs including, oddly, City, Everton, West Ham and Southampton. The kicker being that the way it was structured was that only 6 clubs were required to carry any proposal., one of which, incidentally, was the power to veto new owners, So Arsenal, united, liverpool, spurs and chelsea only needed one other vote to do as they pleased. That plan was frustrated by the other clubs in the PL.

All that presents a real problem for the 4 PL clubs most determined to join the ESL. That is, unless the Premier League is brought to heel and ceases to be the commercial force that it has been and would continue to be, unless it somehow contrived to self-destruct. And at that point, the white knights would ride in to save the day. Only with certain pre-conditions......

Fanciful ? Possibly, but I'm not so sure.

 

[Bald fraud]

Brilliant and spot on. He's taken the best product in world football and ruined it. If it carries on in this way English clubs will be championship level once more in Europe. As for a regulator, if whoever is appointed does as good a job as the absolute fuckwits running the country football really is fucked.

They don’t give a fuck! As long as they get the rags to be top dog again. That’s all they want

 

[halfcenturyup]

I'm not arguing for PSR, but I thought the argument for not uprating with inflation was that they didn't want clubs losing money.

The £105m isn't a figure that they've decided is a fair level to lose/invest in a club, it was there to give some flexibility when the rules were introduced. Ten years on, clubs have had plenty of time to make sure their finances are compliant.

Correct. I thought one of the main reasons for FFP at the time (at least, stated reasons) was to control "football inflation" by ensuring the clubs didn't lose, for example, too much money.

It is wholly consistent with that aim then to continue to increase regulation of "football inflation" by leaving the allowable losses at the same level, requiring further belt tightening by the clubs. Or maybe it was just about stopping City after all .....

To suggest Everton and Forest would have complied with FFP if you doubled the allowable losses after the reckless spending of those two clubs over the last couple of years is just bizarre.

This whole "the allowable losses should increase with inflation" thing has only come about since United are in danger of failing, the PL has started sanctioning points deductions and the increasing realisation that Masters is way out of his depth.

 

[halfcenturyup]

When the richest, most powerful and commercially successful league in the world appears to be so, inexplicably, hell-bent on self-destruction, I think it's worth, at least, considering the possibility that, far from being incompetence, it's actually a deliberate act of sabotage from within.

After all, if we, and Martin Samuel, could see the utter shambles that would Inevitably result, why couldn't the architects of the whole disaster.

If we consider who would benefit from the collapse of the PL, who would love to see the PL implode, the answer has to be La Liga, Serie A and the Bundesliga. So we're talking, primarily, the most powerful clubs in those leagues Madrid, Barca, Athletico the Milan clubs, Juventus, Bayern and Dortmund. Essentially, those leagues' representatives in the old G14. Apart from the German clubs, that's, also, essentially, the clubs refusing to give up on the ESL. But the ESL is nothing without the most powerful English clubs to carry it through and structure of the PL and, specifically the voting structure of the PL, means that Arsenal, united, liverpool and Spurs could be out-voted or, worse, in theory, voted out. We've recently seen what some media sources, most notably, Sky, describe as a "rebellion" where some clubs had the audacity to vote against the "associated party" rule changes. In short, there are signs that the other clubs are beginning to flex their muscles. So, change the voting rights. Liverpool and united were frustrated in their attempts to do just that in Project Big Picture where, in association with Rick Parry, their PL puppet, Richard Masters', equivalent in the EFL, they attempted to tie increased payments to the EFL to increased voting rights for 9 certain clubs including, oddly, City, Everton, West Ham and Southampton. The kicker being that the way it was structured was that only 6 clubs were required to carry any proposal., one of which, incidentally, was the power to veto new owners, So Arsenal, united, liverpool, spurs and chelsea only needed one other vote to do as they pleased. That plan was frustrated by the other clubs in the PL.

All that presents a real problem for the 4 PL clubs most determined to join the ESL. That is, unless the Premier League is brought to heel and ceases to be the commercial force that it has been and would continue to be, unless it somehow contrived to self-destruct. And at that point, the white knights would ride in to save the day. Only with certain pre-conditions......

Fanciful ? Possibly, but I'm not so sure.

Been saying that for months.

 

[halfcenturyup]

You’re all wrong……

It was probably just in case the Rags had losses around this amount. There hasn’t been a si ngle rule created that hasn’t started from maintaining them at the top so we should assume that was the reason for this also.

Only this. And the noise around increasing the allowable losses is purely because United are struggling to meet the current limit. Everton and Forest? No-one gives a fuck. And nor should they. It is their incompetence that got them to this situation. As it is with United, btw.

 

[halfcenturyup]

Aside from the fact that ffp is a pile of balls. Clubs are supposed to break even and the 35m per year safety net or whatever isn’t meant to be the target to work against. 0m is the target. Increasing the 35m in line with inflation perpetuates that. Whereas surely it should be being reduced each year until there’s no deficit. Ignoring inflation had that happy natural effect. Aside from that it’s a pile of balls.

Correct, I can't believe a financial "expert" (it's a whole new profession filled with people who aren't experts at all) is suggesting doubling the allowable losses so Everton and Forest don't breach them, after their reckless and profligate spending. It's nonsense.

There are plenty of things wrong with FFP, some of them fundamental. But a limit on allowable losses of 105 million, in and of itself, isn't one of them.

 

[cheekybids]

According to other fans, apparently his son works for the club so he's on the payroll. Fuck em. I don't have much sympathy.

I’ve never heard what the job is though….. just he has this job for City.

 

[cheekybids]

Correct, I can't believe a financial "expert" (it's a whole new profession filled with people who aren't experts at all) is suggesting doubling the allowable losses so Everton and Forest don't breach them, after their reckless and profligate spending. It's nonsense.

There are plenty of things wrong with FFP, some of them fundamental. But a limit on allowable losses of 105 million, in and of itself, isn't one of them.

Along with legal, geo-political & human rights experts.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

What does acting like Champions actually look like… in my lifetime the precedent has been Liverpool, the Rags or Arsenal and they’ve all been gloating wankers. We are far more classy.

I think that’s fair comment and is absolutely not what I meant. However, can anyone honestly say the current approach is having a positive effect on how the club is perceived?

Logic (and some emotion tbf) points to these charges being completely without substance. That also appears to be the prevailing view on here. On that basis, why don’t the club exercise control over the narrative a little more, rather than allow lies and falsehoods to take root and flourish as they have hitherto? I could understand the reticence if there was any substance to these hugely serious allegations, but I do not believe there is, and I therefore think the club needs to seize the initiative a little more as the current radio silence is causing more harm than this shift in approach would imo. Especially at this time, when the whole PL edifice around financial restrictions is becoming increasingly dysfunctional and is looking like it could fall anpart anytime.

There has to be some middle ground that departs from deafening silence. I don’t see what the club has to lose from that. It might not have any effect, and is unlikely going to have an overwhelmingly positive impact, but it will make a material difference to the optics imo, given the nature of the charges and how long they have been in force - and public.

It’s about exercising a small degree of control over the narrative, when we currently have absolutely none.

That’s what I meant when I said act like champions.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

When the richest, most powerful and commercially successful league in the world appears to be so, inexplicably, hell-bent on self-destruction, I think it's worth, at least, considering the possibility that, far from being incompetence, it's actually a deliberate act of sabotage from within.

After all, if we, and Martin Samuel, could see the utter shambles that would Inevitably result, why couldn't the architects of the whole disaster.

If we consider who would benefit from the collapse of the PL, who would love to see the PL implode, the answer has to be La Liga, Serie A and the Bundesliga. So we're talking, primarily, the most powerful clubs in those leagues Madrid, Barca, Athletico the Milan clubs, Juventus, Bayern and Dortmund. Essentially, those leagues' representatives in the old G14. Apart from the German clubs, that's, also, essentially, the clubs refusing to give up on the ESL. But the ESL is nothing without the most powerful English clubs to carry it through and structure of the PL and, specifically the voting structure of the PL, means that Arsenal, united, liverpool and Spurs could be out-voted or, worse, in theory, voted out. We've recently seen what some media sources, most notably, Sky, describe as a "rebellion" where some clubs had the audacity to vote against the "associated party" rule changes. In short, there are signs that the other clubs are beginning to flex their muscles. So, change the voting rights. Liverpool and united were frustrated in their attempts to do just that in Project Big Picture where, in association with Rick Parry, their PL puppet, Richard Masters', equivalent in the EFL, they attempted to tie increased payments to the EFL to increased voting rights for 9 certain clubs including, oddly, City, Everton, West Ham and Southampton. The kicker being that the way it was structured was that only 6 clubs were required to carry any proposal., one of which, incidentally, was the power to veto new owners, So Arsenal, united, liverpool, spurs and chelsea only needed one other vote to do as they pleased. That plan was frustrated by the other clubs in the PL.

All that presents a real problem for the 4 PL clubs most determined to join the ESL. That is, unless the Premier League is brought to heel and ceases to be the commercial force that it has been and would continue to be, unless it somehow contrived to self-destruct. And at that point, the white knights would ride in to save the day. Only with certain pre-conditions......

Fanciful ? Possibly, but I'm not so sure.

It may be somewhat fanciful, but perfectly plausible and certainly possible.

 

[halfcenturyup]

I think that’s fair comment and is absolutely not what I meant. However, can anyone honestly say the current approach is having a positive effect on how the club is perceived?

Logic (and some emotion tbf) points to these charges being completely without substance. That also appears to be the prevailing view on here. On that basis, why don’t the club exercise control over the narrative a little more, rather than allow lies and falsehoods to take root and flourish as they have hitherto? I could understand the reticence if there was any substance to these hugely serious allegations, but I do not believe there is, and I therefore think the club needs to seize the initiative a little more as the current radio silence is causing more harm than this shift in approach would imo. Especially at this time, when the whole PL edifice around financial restrictions is becoming increasingly dysfunctional and is looking like it could fall anpart anytime.

There has to be some middle ground that departs from deafening silence. I don’t see what the club has to lose from that. It might not have any effect, and is unlikely going to have an overwhelmingly positive impact, but it will make a material difference to the optics imo, given the nature of the charges and how long they have been in force - and public.

It’s about exercising a small degree of control over the narrative, when we currently have absolutely none.

That’s what I meant when I said act like champions.

Do you think an independent "Supporters' Trust" would be able to speak on behalf of the fans on these issues, and others, to the public and to the club? Something that is outside the current organisation that seems too cozy to the club with the result that the club are largely deaf to supporters' concerns? Thinking also about the CL final fiasco, tickets, pricing and the rest?

There are plenty of people on here, and in the wider fanbase, with the legal, financial and community experience to do some good work publicising concerns and countering narratives, I think.

 

[nmc]

I think that’s fair comment and is absolutely not what I meant. However, can anyone honestly say the current approach is having a positive effect on how the club is perceived?

Logic (and some emotion tbf) points to these charges being completely without substance. That also appears to be the prevailing view on here. On that basis, why don’t the club exercise control over the narrative a little more, rather than allow lies and falsehoods to take root and flourish as they have hitherto? I could understand the reticence if there was any substance to these hugely serious allegations, but I do not believe there is, and I therefore think the club needs to seize the initiative a little more as the current radio silence is causing more harm than this shift in approach would imo. Especially at this time, when the whole PL edifice around financial restrictions is becoming increasingly dysfunctional and is looking like it could fall anpart anytime.

There has to be some middle ground that departs from deafening silence. I don’t see what the club has to lose from that. It might not have any effect, and is unlikely going to have an overwhelmingly positive impact, but it will make a material difference to the optics imo, given the nature of the charges and how long they have been in force - and public.

It’s about exercising a small degree of control over the narrative, when we currently have absolutely none.

That’s what I meant when I said act like champions.

You are correct and I agree but, I assume those at the top of the club are focussed on one thing - winning the war - and this noise from the media right now is viewed as a distraction and they simply don’t want to compromise our long term well being by swatting down a few no marks like Simon fuckin Jordan. I agree that is infuriating but I was talking to the Chairman of a lower league club last week and he had some insight into the last EPL meeting where the resolution of the EFL payment wasn’t approved and he said the feedback from the meeting was that City are anything but passive in those meetings - they know precisely what’s going on and are fighting their corner - I’d sooner we use our resources to wrestle Fenway Sports to death in the corridors of power than concern ourselves with what a few wankers on X or Twitter think.

 

[cheekybids]

I think that’s fair comment and is absolutely not what I meant. However, can anyone honestly say the current approach is having a positive effect on how the club is perceived?

Logic (and some emotion tbf) points to these charges being completely without substance. That also appears to be the prevailing view on here. On that basis, why don’t the club exercise control over the narrative a little more, rather than allow lies and falsehoods to take root and flourish as they have hitherto? I could understand the reticence if there was any substance to these hugely serious allegations, but I do not believe there is, and I therefore think the club needs to seize the initiative a little more as the current radio silence is causing more harm than this shift in approach would imo. Especially at this time, when the whole PL edifice around financial restrictions is becoming increasingly dysfunctional and is looking like it could fall anpart anytime.

There has to be some middle ground that departs from deafening silence. I don’t see what the club has to lose from that. It might not have any effect, and is unlikely going to have an overwhelmingly positive impact, but it will make a material difference to the optics imo, given the nature of the charges and how long they have been in force - and public.

It’s about exercising a small degree of control over the narrative, when we currently have absolutely none.

That’s what I meant when I said act like champions.

Shortly after the takeover Khaldoon talked of his frustrations of the City mindset, he alluded to ‘typical City’ & not believing we can be what we have become.

I think you are right & I’d like to see the ‘champions manner’ displayed with the accusations & a far more aggressive & confrontational response to the smearing of our club.

I did like Khaldoon showcasing us but I’d like to see it a more local / fan level.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

You are correct and I agree but, I assume those at the top of the club are focussed on one thing - winning the war - and this noise from the media right now is viewed as a distraction and they simply don’t want to compromise our long term well being by swatting down a few no marks like Simon fuckin Jordan. I agree that is infuriating but I was talking to the Chairman of a lower league club last week and he had some insight into the last EPL meeting where the resolution of the EFL payment wasn’t approved and he said the feedback from the meeting was that City are anything but passive in those meetings - they know precisely what’s going on and are fighting their corner - I’d sooner we use our resources to wrestle Fenway Sports to death in the corridors of power than concern ourselves with what a few wankers on X or Twitter think.

I agree with the thrust of what you’re saying but to suggest the public image of the club is nugatory (which this approach suggests) is plainly wrong. It’s not about engaging with Simon fuckin Jordan, it’s about applying some effort and purpose to publicly defending the club when there presently appears to be none.

I think this view also reveals a fear in me that the club will continue this supine approach after we are cleared, which I would say is likely and would be infuriating.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Do you think an independent "Supporters' Trust" would be able to speak on behalf of the fans on these issues, and others, to the public and to the club? Something that is outside the current organisation that seems too cozy to the club with the result that the club are largely deaf to supporters' concerns? Thinking also about the CL final fiasco, tickets, pricing and the rest?

There are plenty of people on here, and in the wider fanbase, with the legal, financial and community experience to do some good work publicising concerns and countering narratives, I think.

I’m not sure the club would listen, mate.

 

[halfcenturyup]

I’m not sure the club would listen, mate.

Pretty sure the club management wouldn't want to listen, but it would be up to the Supporters Trust to get the higher ups to listen. City fans in general, the City supporters' clubs, City Matters are all too passive. It's all well and good saying the club is too passive, without doing anything ourselves to improve the situation. Become visible, have a strong, recognisable voice. Choose battles to fight in the press and on social media. We have plenty of fans in the UAE. I am sure some are well-connected. Get them involved, open up a channel. Make the management take notice by pressuring them from top and bottom.

Revolution!

OK. I am going for a lie down now.

 

[Colin Bell (genuine name)]

I agree with the thrust of what you’re saying but to suggest the public image of the club is nugatory (which this approach suggests) is plainly wrong. It’s not about engaging with Simon fuckin Jordan, it’s about applying some effort and purpose to publicly defending the club when there presently appears to be none.

I think this view also reveals a fear in me that the club will continue this supine approach after we are cleared, which I would say is likely and would be infuriating.

I think we all agree that a more positive approach would be supported by the fans but in what shape or form would that take?

The club just can’t approach the likes of Jordan, Harris etc and say, “You continue to besmirch our club in the manner you have, then once it is all over, we’re coming after you.” These cretins would be reporting it quicker than you could blink, that representatives of Manchester City had threatened them with legal action. I am pretty sure they are so far up their own arse that they are 100% convinced that City are guilty and would be willing to take the risk of going public.

I am convinced our owners are innocent and have a strategy they trust in, after all who saw that we would become the best run club in football in 2008?

 

[oxopop]

When the richest, most powerful and commercially successful league in the world appears to be so, inexplicably, hell-bent on self-destruction, I think it's worth, at least, considering the possibility that, far from being incompetence, it's actually a deliberate act of sabotage from within.

After all, if we, and Martin Samuel, could see the utter shambles that would Inevitably result, why couldn't the architects of the whole disaster.

If we consider who would benefit from the collapse of the PL, who would love to see the PL implode, the answer has to be La Liga, Serie A and the Bundesliga. So we're talking, primarily, the most powerful clubs in those leagues Madrid, Barca, Athletico the Milan clubs, Juventus, Bayern and Dortmund. Essentially, those leagues' representatives in the old G14. Apart from the German clubs, that's, also, essentially, the clubs refusing to give up on the ESL. But the ESL is nothing without the most powerful English clubs to carry it through and structure of the PL and, specifically the voting structure of the PL, means that Arsenal, united, liverpool and Spurs could be out-voted or, worse, in theory, voted out. We've recently seen what some media sources, most notably, Sky, describe as a "rebellion" where some clubs had the audacity to vote against the "associated party" rule changes. In short, there are signs that the other clubs are beginning to flex their muscles. So, change the voting rights. Liverpool and united were frustrated in their attempts to do just that in Project Big Picture where, in association with Rick Parry, their PL puppet, Richard Masters', equivalent in the EFL, they attempted to tie increased payments to the EFL to increased voting rights for 9 certain clubs including, oddly, City, Everton, West Ham and Southampton. The kicker being that the way it was structured was that only 6 clubs were required to carry any proposal., one of which, incidentally, was the power to veto new owners, So Arsenal, united, liverpool, spurs and chelsea only needed one other vote to do as they pleased. That plan was frustrated by the other clubs in the PL.

All that presents a real problem for the 4 PL clubs most determined to join the ESL. That is, unless the Premier League is brought to heel and ceases to be the commercial force that it has been and would continue to be, unless it somehow contrived to self-destruct. And at that point, the white knights would ride in to save the day. Only with certain pre-conditions......

Fanciful ? Possibly, but I'm not so sure.

Sadly I see this as not so fanciful but a legitimate standpoint.

 

[M12Blue]

The problem of defending the club is contentious. As fans I'm sure tge majority of us want Simon Jordan and his ilk to get a good kick in down some blind alley in Gorton. Club see things very differently, and professionally. Given what they've done for us, I'm guessing they're doing the right thing.
However once everything done with and cleared, I do hope they ruin a few sacrificial gobshites to keep me happy.