Political relations between UK-EU

[mancity2012_eamo]

You have to ask - why were they there?

They always fished there and had been out on the water for the last week.
Rockall is a disputed territory. It is an uninhabitable rock approximately 230 miles from Donegal and 240 miles from mainland Scotland. The Irish government has never accepted the UK proclaimed 12 mile exclusion zone around it.

The Donegal trawler has traditionally depended on 30% of it’s catch from these waters.

There will be intense negotiations again between UK and Irish governments lasting until the summer, they predict.

In the meantime, I think we’re at war with Scotland.

 

[BobKowalski]

I assume the infrastructure wasn't there in 2016? He has watched zero expansion in the infrastructure since that time. So what did he expect?
Likewise I assume the paperwork and VAT of which he speaks he readily dismissed as Project Fear as he campaigned and voted Leave?
Zero fucks given here.

Harsh, but fair.

 

[BobKowalski]

Well - as you have been one of those that have demonstrated that lack of understanding....... although TBF to you I think that, given how obvious the facts of issue are, you feign that lack of understanding just to play games - others - not so.

And yes - I would say especially UK fishermen (although they are not all Leave supporters as you seek to suggest) - as would be obvious to anyone not playing games.

They have vested interests in 'solely' that specific sector - the UK have used that sector for the good of the UK's negotiations overall and not failed to look after that group as well

What is truly funny - well would be if you were being serious and not just playing silly games - is that:

You, Vic and others have spent years banging on about the limitations of the UK fishing fleet - that they have not the capacity to catch more quotas etc. In fact you seem to have exulted in pointing that out.

But now the UK has secured a deal that increases the current position significantly and allows for a period of investment in the industry and has a date in the future when we can take control of as much more as we wish - you turn 180 degrees.

Anyway, I post this information for others and not you - so that they can see through the nonsense.

As I say, you must be playing silly games where you are feigning a lack of understanding - I can understand why - there are so many posts full of utter confidence that have been exposed as......

But me, I am looking to the future - so I will leave you to your games and move on

‘But me, I am looking to the future...’

I‘m sure you are, and at great speed, as the alternative is owning the piles of poo you are striding through on the way to the fucking future.

 

[west didsblue]

I assume the infrastructure wasn't there in 2016? He has watched zero expansion in the infrastructure since that time. So what did he expect?
Likewise I assume the paperwork and VAT of which he speaks he readily dismissed as Project Fear as he campaigned and voted Leave?
Zero fucks given here.

Project Fear isn't a thing any more. It's now called Project Obvious - the leavers knew all along that all the warnings were correct but voted for it anyway. Now that they're being pointed out they can say they already knew and it was what they wanted. Unfortunately the fishing industry isn't playing that game any more, but apparently you wouldn't expect them to know anything about their own industry!

 

[BobKowalski]

We must be careful not to get distracted by the very obvious - well deliberate distractions.

I am going to try and leave the baiting and goading mostly alone - there is an increasingly rosy future becoming apparent

TBF - we should show some understanding - they have spent years predicting with 100% confidence - what events will come to pass - and are being/have been proven to be spectacularly wrong.

The options are limited - just accepting and being grateful as this is best for the UK would be an obvious one

Going full on in denial is another. I actually do not think that there is an attempt to persuade you, me or anyone that can read and assess the reality of January 2021

I think that it is both a mutual support narrative and an attempt for the reality to be denied

We might have reacted the same - I like to think not - should the 7,000 lorry queues and empty shops materialised.

By distractions do you mean the various reports in the media about the effects of raising trade barriers overnight? Or the House committee on NI listening to the reports on shortages and lorries being turned away at the new customs border between GB and NI which the UK Govt, and yourself, pretend doesn‘t exist?

 

[stonerblue]

Thank you for the daily update.
I'm sure you can find a live stream from the port of Dover so you can alert us any time the situation changes.

While you're waiting perhaps you could explain the benefits to the UK of the movement of 99.8% of European share trading to Paris, the new tariffs on bananas from Ghana, the lack of access for UK fishermen to areas controlled by Norway and external territories of Denmark, all the companies that will no longer export to the UK due to additional costs and red tape etc, the inability for UK companies to export chilled minced red meat, chilled meat preparations (for example, raw sausages), minced meat (poultry), poultry and ratite or game bird mechanically-separated meat, ungraded eggs and composite products containing dairy products made from unpasteurised milk (for example, a ready meal topped with unpasteurised cheese).

And UK prescriptions no longer valid in EU

 

[stonerblue]

I hold out hope that some will be less obviously just desperate and largely irrelevant attempts that take some effort to bat off ;-)

Actually - that is not true - I hope that they remain exactly at the same level.

That means that there continues to be little of substance as regards downsides for the UK, for which we should all be grateful - and responding kills time whilst the 7,000 lorries are preparing to converge on Kent (I am running for cover then)

So a fisherman going out of business and a child not getting medicine are of 'little substance'?

 

[stonerblue]

I would put the order on hold for the time being.

Surely the government will be giving them away to 'build up our infastructure'?

 

[west didsblue]

So a fisherman going out of business and a child not getting medicine are of 'little substance'?

Not compared to there being no queues in Dover (even though it's explained by traffic being down 85%).

 

[mcfc1632]

They always fished there and had been out on the water for the last week.
Rockall is a disputed territory. It is an uninhabitable rock approximately 230 miles from Donegal and 240 miles from mainland Scotland. The Irish government has never accepted the UK proclaimed 12 mile exclusion zone around it.

The Donegal trawler has traditionally depended on 30% of it’s catch from these waters.

There will be intense negotiations again between UK and Irish governments lasting until the summer, they predict.

In the meantime, I think we’re at war with Scotland.

Oh well - at least they are aware now

Water pistols at dawn?

 

[mcfc1632]

‘But me, I am looking to the future...’

I‘m sure you are, and at great speed, as the alternative is owning the piles of poo you are striding through on the way to the fucking future.

Well.....

Me? I am really happy and confident for the future.

You? seem to have a bit of a journey to make.

Us? - it is actually all our future - so should we not be hoping for the best?

I am also happy to own responsibility - although, TBF, I can only count about 25-30 people that I directly persuaded to vote Leave

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Just going through your maths....84% caught by the French, reduced by 25% over five years, UK then control 66%? Is that right? Doesn’t seem right? Is this Brexit maths? Are there unicorns?

Tell you what, how about you tackle the issues raised on lack of access to Norwegian waters or non tariff barriers to actually selling the catch. Real people with real issues, being raised today.

The 84% refers to cod, he said the French, but he means the EU, take this
amount in the channel, the 25%, graduated, is for catch in British waters, the total catch rises to 66%. I think you knew this, unless the unicorn kept it from you.

 

[mcfc1632]

By distractions do you mean the various reports in the media about the effects of raising trade barriers overnight? Or the House committee on NI listening to the reports on shortages and lorries being turned away at the new customs border between GB and NI which the UK Govt, and yourself, pretend doesn‘t exist?

Overall the outcome of Brexit is completely and totally beyond my very best expectations pre-2016

When thinking back to how I was feeling in 2017-2019, as Remainer May shamefully fucked the UK over, then the outcome of December 2020 is absolutely off the fucking scale better than my best hopes, aspirations and dreams - I am totally and utterly delighted with where we are.

Now I know that you do not want me to feel this way - and I accept that you are not able to share the joy - but I am afraid that there is nothing that you can say or any straw that you can clutch that has the remotest chance of having even a miniscule impact on my happiness.

But - I am happy for you to try and I will respond in as positive manner as I can.

I would point out though, that the examples you have been giving about some fishing difficulties, or a few lorries having a problem, or.......

Do not seem to represent the scale of disaster that you and others have been predicting for years.

In summary - are these; somewhat isolated inconveniences a price worth paying for the achievement of getting the UK the fuck out of the EU - and on the road to becoming a genuinely independent state?

IMO - you bet they fucking are!!

 

[Ancient Citizen]

We must be careful not to get distracted by the very obvious and deliberate - well distractions.

I am going to try and not respond to the baiting and goading - there is an increasingly rosy future becoming apparent and we can afford to just be happy

TBF - we should show some understanding - they have spent years predicting with 100% confidence - what events will come to pass - and these are being/have been proven to be spectacularly wrong.

The options are limited - just accepting and being grateful as this is best for the UK would be an obvious one

Going full on in denial is another. I actually do not think that there is an attempt to persuade you, me or anyone that can read and assess the reality of January 2021

I think that it is both a mutual support narrative and an attempt for reality to be denied

We might have reacted the same - I like to think not - should the 7,000 lorry queues and empty shops materialised.

Yeah, it must be a bit tedious trawling through dozens of sources in attempts to discredit what we voted for, and re running 2016. As nothing seems to be being discussed about the actual point of the thread, I'll give it a swerve for a while.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

but I am afraid that there is nothing that you can say or any straw that you can clutch that has the remotest chance of having even a miniscule impact on my happiness.

Just had to lol there!

 

[mcfc1632]

Just had to lol there!

Just felt it needed to be said - to remove false hope

Sometimes such clarity is helpful

 

[BobKowalski]

The 84% refers to cod, he said the French, but he means the EU, take this
amount in the channel, the 25%, graduated, is for catch in British waters, the total catch rises to 66%. I think you knew this, unless the unicorn kept it from you.

Not especially, I know the EU offered 25%, of what is, I assume, all species of fish and we took it rather than holding out for our original demand. The French seem quite pleased, UK fisherman less so with their notional increase in quotas and more difficult access to their main market and it seems bit of a problem accessing Norwegian waters.

I just think it’s a bit rich to be so dismissive of the views of the people working in the industry, smacks of a rather elitist attitude, ‘be grateful and stop complaining’ sort of thing.

 

[west didsblue]

Overall the outcome of Brexit is completely and totally beyond my very best expectations pre-2016

When thinking back to how I was feeling in 2017-2019, as Remainer May shamefully fucked the UK over, then the outcome of December 2020 is absolutely off the fucking scale better than my best hopes, aspirations and dreams - I am totally and utterly delighted with where we are.

Now I know that you do not want me to feel this way - and I accept that you are not able to share the joy - but I am afraid that there is nothing that you can say or any straw that you can clutch that has the remotest chance of having even a miniscule impact on my happiness.

But - I am happy for you to try and I will respond in as positive manner as I can.

I would point out though, that the examples you have been giving about some fishing difficulties, or a few lorries having a problem, or.......

Do not seem to represent the scale of disaster that you and others have been predicting for years.

In summary - are these; somewhat isolated inconveniences a price worth paying for the achievement of getting the UK the fuck out of the EU - and on the road to becoming a genuinely independent state

IMO - you bet they fucking are.

We all know that whatever bollocks Frost and Johnson served up at the end of last year would be greeted as a huge triumph by you. You're fooling no one (maybe with the exception of Ancient) with this triumphalist nonsense. We've already seen EU exporters not willing to export to the UK, UK exporters giving up on exporting to the EU, share dealing moving from London, the market for fish exports disappearing, empty shelves in NI due to EU customs between GB and NI, whole swathes of food products not allowed to be exported, record support for Scottish independence, people held up travelling to their homes in the EU and countless other consequences. These are the things being called minor inconveniences by you presumably because they've not directly affected your own little Brexit wonderland yet.

At the moment we're just 6 days in. Lets see what happens when trade gets back to its normal levels (which it probably won't) and the world opens up again post Covid.

 

[BobKowalski]

Overall the outcome of Brexit is completely and totally beyond my very best expectations pre-2016

When thinking back to how I was feeling in 2017-2019, as Remainer May shamefully fucked the UK over, then the outcome of December 2020 is absolutely off the fucking scale better than my best hopes, aspirations and dreams - I am totally and utterly delighted with where we are.

Now I know that you do not want me to feel this way - and I accept that you are not able to share the joy - but I am afraid that there is nothing that you can say or any straw that you can clutch that has the remotest chance of having even a miniscule impact on my happiness.

But - I am happy for you to try and I will respond in as positive manner as I can.

I would point out though, that the examples you have been giving about some fishing difficulties, or a few lorries having a problem, or.......

Do not seem to represent the scale of disaster that you and others have been predicting for years.

In summary - are these; somewhat isolated inconveniences a price worth paying for the achievement of getting the UK the fuck out of the EU - and on the road to becoming a genuinely independent state

IMO - you bet they fucking are.

You clearly have zero idea what we negotiated or what the WA and the deal means for the UK going forward.

You have no conception of what the NI/GB customs border in the Irish Sea means for the UK. Now, Lord Moylan is tad hysterical (well he is a Tory and Brexiteer), but at least it’s finally sinking in.

’What’s happening to N Ireland is barely noticed in Great Britain. The province, with no democratic consent, is being turned rapidly into an economic colony of the EU’

The extent of the damage you are willing the UK to suffer to go precisely no where is remarkable. Even individual hardships of your fellow countrymen is a price you are willing to pay, but then the hardships of others is always easy to bear.

 

[meltonblue]

You clearly have zero idea what we negotiated or what the WA and the deal means for the UK going forward.

You have no conception of what the NI/GB customs border in the Irish Sea means for the UK. Now, Lord Moylan is tad hysterical (well he is a Tory and Brexiteer), but at least it’s finally sinking in.

’What’s happening to N Ireland is barely noticed in Great Britain. The province, with no democratic consent, is being turned rapidly into an economic colony of the EU’

The extent of the damage you are willing the UK to suffer to go precisely no where is remarkable. Even individual hardships of your fellow countrymen is a price you are willing to pay, but then the hardships of others is always easy to bear.

And what’s happening in NI is exactly why May wouldn’t do what Johnson did.