Political relations between UK-EU

[Chippy_boy]

Really not sure how we’re going to be less regulation burdened. Everything we export will still have to meet the regulations of the importing countries and they’re hardly going to be more likely to recognise our regulations unless they’re very close to those of a major trading bloc like the EU so in reality we’re pretty much tied into EU regulations but without any say in their development. As for growing faster there’s absolutely no hint of this in the foreseeable future apart from the recent spurt which was entirely down to us recovering from a deeper drop than nearly everyone else. Our trade, GDP and stock market are almost unique amongst developed countries in that they haven’t or have barely recovered to pre-pandemic highs. If by saying it’s not been a total disaster you mean there’s no rioting on the streets and no mass starvation then fair enough but by almost any measure you choose against our competitors it hasn’t been far short of a total disaster.

I'm not replying point by point - wrong thread (and can't be arsed). I will merely say I expected it to be MUCH worse than this.

Yes, fuel prices have gone bananas and inflation is spiralling, so people will inevitably struggle. But neither of those have anything to do with Brexit - it's the same in all western economies with respect to fuel and inflation.

What we have not seen (staggeringly, considering we've had COVID) is rampant growth in unemployment and mass business closures - the likes of Nissan etc. Unemployment rates are running at roughly pre-covid levels, which is frankly incredible.

 

[blueparrot]

I'm not replying point by point - wrong thread (and can't be arsed). I will merely say I expected it to be MUCH worse than this.

Yes, fuel prices have gone bananas and inflation is spiralling, so people will inevitably struggle. But neither of those have anything to do with Brexit - it's the same in all western economies with respect to fuel and inflation.

What we have not seen (staggeringly, considering we've had COVID) is rampant growth in unemployment and mass business closures - the likes of Nissan etc. Unemployment rates are running at roughly pre-covid levels, which is frankly incredible.

I suppose it could always have been much worse, though for some sectors not so much. The thing is it could very easily have been far better but for a government implementing brexit based on ideology not making the best of a bad decision.
Whether you supported remain or leave , or both, this is nowhere near the best brexit we could have had. Which is why we are still trying to negotiate a better one.

 

[Chippy_boy]

I suppose it could always have been much worse, though for some sectors not so much. The thing is it could very easily have been far better but for a government implementing brexit based on ideology not making the best of a bad decision.
Whether you supported remain or leave , or both, this is nowhere near the best brexit we could have had. Which is why we are still trying to negotiate a better one.

Not for this thread, but I am intrigued as to how you think it could be better. Maybe pick this up in a Brexit thread - if there still is one? The NI situation was going to be a clusterfuck no matter which flavour of clusterfuck you prefer. And we have a tariff-free, free-trade deal - which I thought would be impossible.

 

[Tb1981]

We are isolated, and I don’t mean Johnson shambling around looking for someone to chat to. Last two days 27 European countries held a summit with the US as a guest. The summit approved the EU SC plan, a common European defence framework, and tasked the EU with buying and developing infrastructure for gas, ie, a common Europe wide energy policy.

Decisions are being made in Europe, the continent we are part of, with zero UK input or participation.

That is isolation.

Your still trotting out the same lines you have been since brexit was voted for.
Get over it!
You are so desperate for this country to fail It’s unreal.

isolation is the Ukraine....being invaded by Russia while the EU continue to buy gas and oil and nato refuse to help.
No one in the eu has said to us don’t take any Ukraine refugees, don’t send aid, don’t send weapons etc etc

We are big player on the word stage and just because you don’t see it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Your still trotting out the same lines you have been since brexit was voted for.
Get over it!
You are so desperate for this country to fail It’s unreal.

isolation is the Ukraine....being invaded by Russia while the EU continue to buy gas and oil and nato refuse to help.
No one in the eu has said to us don’t take any Ukraine refugees, don’t send aid, don’t send weapons etc etc

We are big player on the word stage and just because you don’t see it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist

This is delusional. Isolation is self imposed. We have chosen to use that sovereignty to exclude refugees or set up unnecessary hurdles for them to get past.

 

[Tb1981]

This is delusional. Isolation is self imposed. We have chosen to use that sovereignty to exclude refugees or set up unnecessary hurdles for them to get past.

Delusion is the fact you only take one element of that and twist it to suit.
We have managed to commit to provision of weapons, and aid without the EU.
We are still the second biggest member of NATO whether in the EU or not, we are still one of the five main members of the UN.
The EU is and will never be as important as some people seem to think.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Delusion is the fact you only take one element of that and twist it to suit.
We have managed to commit to provision of weapons, and aid without the EU.
We are still the second biggest member of NATO whether in the EU or not, we are still one of the five main members of the UN.
The EU is and will never be as important as some people seem to think.

Why has Zelenskyy admitted that Ukraine probably won't join NATO but still pushing for EU membership then?

 

[Tb1981]

Why has Zelenskyy admitted that Ukraine probably won't join NATO but still pushing for EU membership then?

Hmmmmm let me think....
1 nato won’t let them join
2 Russia is attacking them as the are afraid of them joining nato

the whole thing is to do with nato

 

[BobKowalski]

Your still trotting out the same lines you have been since brexit was voted for.
Get over it!
You are so desperate for this country to fail It’s unreal.

isolation is the Ukraine....being invaded by Russia while the EU continue to buy gas and oil and nato refuse to help.
No one in the eu has said to us don’t take any Ukraine refugees, don’t send aid, don’t send weapons etc etc

We are big player on the word stage and just because you don’t see it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist

If the UK is not in the room when the big decisions are made, then we are not a player, big or otherwise. It makes us spectators.

 

[blueparrot]

Not for this thread, but I am intrigued as to how you think it could be better. Maybe pick this up in a Brexit thread - if there still is one? The NI situation was going to be a clusterfuck no matter which flavour of clusterfuck you prefer. And we have a tariff-free, free-trade deal - which I thought would be impossible.

This is the EU thread, it may be tariff free ,but its very time consuming and expensive with red tape in both directions for anyone trading with the eu, and if you trade in fresh goods even more problematic.
There was a very simple solution and it’s a solution one part of the UK has ,Northern Ireland , as they remain in the single market, unfortunately they now have a border with the rest of the UK.
Quite simply but for ideological red lines drawn to pacify the ERG the whole UK as one could have had a single market / customs union deal. A deal I expect we will slowly inch towards under a different goverment, of whatever party, I’ll be amazed if in 10 years,probably sooner due to the Ukraine situation reshaping the EU, we aren’t in either EFA or EFTA. Because this current brexit is unsustainable.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Hmmmmm let me think....
1 nato won’t let them join
2 Russia is attacking them as the are afraid of them joining nato

the whole thing is to do with nato

Except the wider conflict began (in 2014) because the President refused to sign an association agreement with the EU and was pushed out by the Euromaidan protests. Sounds like it is more about the EU and not NATO.

 

[mancityvstoke]

Except the wider conflict began (in 2014) because the President refused to sign an association agreement with the EU and was pushed out by the Euromaidan protests. Sounds like it is more about the EU and not NATO.

Those cops were brutal cunts ….. can’t remember what they’re called? (Found them ….Berkut). Shooting their own citizens and beating some to death

Ukraine has had it shit for years poor fuckers

Brave as fuck they are

 

[Bodicoteblue]

If the UK is not in the room when the big decisions are made, then we are not a player, big or otherwise. It makes us spectators.

Which is the desired result.
People fall so easily into the divisive trap of thinking that those of us opposed to brexit are somehow anti-british. They entirely miss the point that we all want the best for Britain but we have diametrically opposed views on how that could be achieved. Brexiters believe that brexit is the only way and we on the other side know that it isn’t.
I‘m a advocate of the idea ‘follow the money’ and in the case of brexit it is a simple equation- who’s behind it and why, and who are the beneficiaries?
A cursory inspection reveals the likes of Johnson, Raab, Rees-mogg, Farage, et al. All well off and likely undamaged financially by brexit, and no doubt keen to help themselves and their friends’ keep their offshore accounts and tax dodging activities, and some promoted well above their abilities simply by toeing the brexit line.
Then there the ones you can’t see, the ones in the shadows who financed it all.
We know that the leave campaign spent illegally and was awash with russian money, and that’s where we have to ask what the payback was. Or were these donors really just altruistically motivated by a desire for freedom and sovereignty.
Given their activities in Ukraine…..probably not.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

I'm not replying point by point - wrong thread (and can't be arsed). I will merely say I expected it to be MUCH worse than this.

Yes, fuel prices have gone bananas and inflation is spiralling, so people will inevitably struggle. But neither of those have anything to do with Brexit - it's the same in all western economies with respect to fuel and inflation.

What we have not seen (staggeringly, considering we've had COVID) is rampant growth in unemployment and mass business closures - the likes of Nissan etc. Unemployment rates are running at roughly pre-covid levels, which is frankly incredible.

But is it better than what we had ?

 

[Chippy_boy]

But is it better than what we had ?

No. You'll recall I said I voted Remain.

 

[Uncle Wally One Ball]

Hmmmmm let me think....
1 nato won’t let them join
2 Russia is attacking them as the are afraid of them joining nato

the whole thing is to do with nato

Putin propaganda has seeped into your consciousness mate

 

[bluethrunthru]

What we have not seen (staggeringly, considering we've had COVID) is rampant growth in unemployment and mass business closures - the likes of Nissan etc. Unemployment rates are running at roughly pre-covid levels, which is frankly incredible.

But we have record levels of vacancies which illustrated that people coming here weren't "stealing" jobs they were filling gaps which now they have gone home and can't or don't want to come back we cannot fill. 1.2m jobs not being done means theoretically at least 1m days of lost production every day - the UK economic mystery of low productivity is laid bare there - if you need 10 welders but only have 5 that means that production is running at 50%

 

[BobKowalski]

FT running on the struggles of SME’s

‘UK small businesses struggle with bureaucratic quagmire after #Brexit — these are the stories behind the statistics of falling U.K. trade. SMEs fighting the friction. Here, a focus on services post pandemic.‘

https://www.ft.com/content/e5432184-7109-449a-8b10-cb3a701e2226

And also FT contrasting the Govt’s fantasy view on how things work, to reality.

‘Important point. U.K. govt statements on this increasingly divorced from reality of traders’ lived experience #Brexit’

 

[bluethrunthru]

FT running on the struggles of SME’s

‘UK small businesses struggle with bureaucratic quagmire after #Brexit — these are the stories behind the statistics of falling U.K. trade. SMEs fighting the friction. Here, a focus on services post pandemic.‘

https://www.ft.com/content/e5432184-7109-449a-8b10-cb3a701e2226

And also FT contrasting the Govt’s fantasy view on how things work, to reality.

‘Important point. U.K. govt statements on this increasingly divorced from reality of traders’ lived experience #Brexit’

Its almost as if Brexit was built on lies

 

[bluethrunthru]