Political relations between UK-EU

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bluethrunthru said:
Won't happen under this Govt - they have shown they are happy to damage the country for their own dogmatic reasons - just watch how he goes around the houses to avoid a straight answer here

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I agree that it won’t happen under this Govt, and they will happily accept the economic harm, but it will happen at some point and by delaying border checks, and the UK kite mark the Govt is aware it can only inflict a finite amount of self-harm.
 
mexico1970 said:
The world could be on fire and the anti-Brexit mob would still be gibbering from their bath chairs. No credit where credit is due just political point scoring.

Nodding in agreement at your post, well said.
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Part of the world actually is on fire and some Brexiteers can't stop themselves from petty point scoring about German actions being somehow associated with their EU membership. It's about as relevant as German membership of G7 or the OECD when it comes to the war in Ukraine.

In reality it's another demonstration that every EU country, as well as every sovereign state in the world makes its own decisions on matters of their own self interest, something that the Brexiteers loudly complained wasn't the case. German actions regarding Ukraine have proven beyond doubt that the myth of the EU being all powerful was absolute bollocks. The EU may have aspirations to have more of a say but when push comes to shove the member states make their own decisions.
 
metalblue said:
It is and it isn’t, and herein lays one of its problems that has been exposed by the conflict. I have a lot of sympathy and respect for the EU on Ukraine, they tried to lead the way very early on but have been somewhat frustrated in that and let down to an extent by some of their member states.

The EU strike me as a bit confused about their role - member states seemingly delegated decision making, for example by the advent of an EU foreign minister and foreign policy, to the EU but in actual fact it was little more than an honorary role when real leadership and decision making was attempted by the EU. The EU aren’t to blame for this and to my mind this crisis has thrown off the shackles of bureaucrats and shown them to be strong leaders albeit a bit toothless.

The EU probably need to redefine certain aspects of statehood and reset the boundaries of their power - I’ve long held the notion that they should either go all out and become a United States of Europe with all that entails, a standing army, law and order, health, welfare and the such or row back to being a pure trading bloc. This current half way house really doesn’t satisfy anyone or anything in the long term.
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Rather than take the Ukraine thread in the wrong direction I thought I'd answer this post in here.

You've made some good points and I agree with much of it up until the last paragraph. I think the half way house as you call it should be recognised as a necessary expedient which provides a framework for day to day operation of the normal activities and relations of the member states, but when it comes to the big decisions that mean the most to individual member states they should always have the power to make their own decisions whether we agree with them or not. In Germany's case most would agree they're behaving like cunts but it's their right to do this, and introducing measures to centralise control of all aspects of foreign and defence policy really would be a fulfilment of the Brexiteers fears. This has been a demonstration that we're miles away from that, and the anti-EU point scoring by some is really missing the target completely - that target being Germany itself.
 
west didsblue said:
Rather than take the Ukraine thread in the wrong direction I thought I'd answer this post in here.

You've made some good points and I agree with much of it up until the last paragraph. I think the half way house as you call it should be recognised as a necessary expedient which provides a framework for day to day operation of the normal activities and relations of the member states, but when it comes to the big decisions that mean the most to individual member states they should always have the power to make their own decisions whether we agree with them or not. In Germany's case most would agree they're behaving like cunts but it's their right to do this, and introducing measures to centralise control of all aspects of foreign and defence policy really would be a fulfilment of the Brexiteers fears. This has been a demonstration that we're miles away from that, and the anti-EU point scoring by some is really missing the target completely - that target being Germany itself.
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Thanks mate, was very conscious of taking the Ukraine thread off track.

You make some good points. The EU common defence policy has always been about confronting external issues, however, creating new EU armed forces that is based along the lines of NATO - and works with NATO rather than against it - would make sense. It could leave member nations to act autonomously as they can in NATO but provide common security to all. That shouldn’t be politically challenging given they already have some authority under the Lisbon treaty. But again it is another shift away from a trading bloc.

I’m a little torn about criticism of Germany. Their reluctance to support isn’t, I don’t believe, driven by some sort of nationalistic pro Russian stance but rather they are held back by their recent history of WW2. The Germans have historically held a very poor view of Slavs - to the point they could not understand why the allies in WW2 didn’t join them to fight against Russia once they’d pushed the Germans out of the occupied countries. We’ve seen this baggage played out by Germany on various occasions - it was only recently they allowed German armed forces to act outside their borders.
 
Gray said:
I have always believed that if the EU stuck to being a trading block, without all the top heavy administration and "parliament", it was something we should be a part of.

When it comes to unity over something like the Russian invasion of the Ukraine then it shows itself up as a collection of disparate nations with very little in common.
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Something like a trading bloc that it would be a good idea to be a member of?
Too late for that mate.
 
Johnson apparently telling journos on plane to India ‘UK has "massive shortage" of skilled labourers and Indians could get easy access to UK jobs’.

The genius of Brexit. Put barriers up to Europeans, who then can’t be arsed, boost immigration from India (and Philippines and Nigeria) to replace them while removing the rights of the British to freedoms to work and live in Europe.

And people vote for these clowns and this lunacy :)
 
KS55 said:
So the 140 EU embassies are just for show then?
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I've responded in here do as to not take off the Russian invasion thread off on a tangent.

Do member states still have their own embassies in the same territories?

It’s a bit more nuanced than my brief post might have implied, but fundamentally there is no overarching and universal foreign policy in the EU.

www.euractiv.com

There is no real 'European foreign policy', says former EU diplomat | Euractiv

The EU does not have a real 'European foreign policy' because every country works on its own and member states do not want to give full responsibility to the EU's High Representative, a former senior French and EU diplomat told EURACTIV Slovakia in an interview.
www.euractiv.com www.euractiv.com

As evidenced by Orban's stance towards Russia in Hungary.

Member states are not in suzerainty to the EU Commission and free to make their own foreign policy. The EU is not the USSR or Warsaw Pact, it doesn't send in the tanks when countries go off script or threaten to leave.
 
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Fode N The Hole said:
How they think they will enforce this policy when there is no hard border?

Tour operators will lose out on trade, but foreign tourists will be able to visit Northern Ireland off their own back.
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I was wondering about that.
Taking back control of a border that in reality doesn’t exist.
It‘s almost as if they hadn’t listened to those pesky experts and just went full tilt at brexit without having the simplest notion of a plan.
It‘s ironic that one of the the most visited attractions in NI is the Titanic quarter - now we have brexit- something else very expensive, overblown in confidence and ultimately a disaster.
 
Bodicoteblue said:
I was wondering about that.
Taking back control of a border that in reality doesn’t exist.
It‘s almost as if they hadn’t listened to those pesky experts and just went full tilt at brexit without having the simplest notion of a plan.
It‘s ironic that one of the the most visited attractions in NI is the Titanic quarter - now we have brexit- something else very expensive, overblown in confidence and ultimately a disaster.
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Any excuse to repeat this

 
bluethrunthru said:
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You can just imagine him being someone's fag at public school, having to make toast with his arse. He would have got his head flushed down the toilet a number of times. Still what's wrong with a weirdo from the elite 1% telling us Plebs how to live our lives. His gaslighting of the civil service is disgraceful.
 
Aba452 said:
You can just imagine him being someone's fag at public school, having to make toast with his arse. He would have got his head flushed down the toilet a number of times. Still what's wrong with a weirdo from the elite 1% telling us Plebs how to live our lives. His gaslighting of the civil service is disgraceful.
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Those with that kind of money are basically the cocks of the school when it comes to those type of establishments. They all gravitate together and even though they would normally have the piss taken out of them, it’s very much the opposite way around as other students think that they could have an adverse effect on their marks.

The likes of Mogg, Johnson, etc, have never had to live the life as many others, they have no understanding of the realities of life and cry foul when they get to a point where they are found out as a grown-up.
 
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