Political relations between UK-EU

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bluejon said:
The problem you have here is that regardless of what people are saying on here, brexit was never fully defined. Cameron said one thing, Johnson said another, Farage said another, Corbyn mostly looked after his allotment etc etc. So when the question "Do you want to leave the EU" came up, that meant many things to different people. I know committed brexiters who were appalled at the idea of leaving the customs union, They were not trying to frustrate brexit, they were trying to put through the version of brexit that they thought best. And May was voted in by the party members who overwhelmingly wanted brexit, so again, this is not on remain voters, this is a tory party fuck up.
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You are conflating things

What the question was and it meaning different things to different people is quite irrelevant to the points that I was making.

And you are wrong re: "....so your comments about May and Hammond don't hold water."

I know exactly how the UK government through the Cabinet Office undertake the management of major programmes - May and Hammond's actions was essentially preventing government undertaking essential work for self-serving reasons

And - re ".........so again, this is not on remain voters, this is a tory party fuck up."

Please do not go the same way as others and twist my words to mean something that I did not say.

I have never blamed 'Remain voters' I pointed out the straightforward fact that the Remain led government between 2016-2019 are largely accountable - that is a different thing
 
bluethrunthru said:
"I don't blame Remainers for the problems" then posts a long list of names of Remainers blaming them- YCNMIP.

To change tack - you were fulsome in your praise of the appointment of Frosty the Showman and his "team of professional negotiators"............they were so accomplished they didn't spot and flag up the issues which Gove is now having to address with a rather embarrassing letter to the EU begging for a 2 year extension..........?
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What is it with you guys - why this need to twist the words of others

I suggest that it just evidences how desperate and on the back foot you are

I am clear that I do not blame Remain voters or Remain supporters in general - I am also clear that I absolutely blame the Remainer led government between 2016-2019

I notice that nobody on here has been able to (effectively) argue the point
 
This thread has turned into a Two Ronnies sketch for one poster where rather than answering the question before last he responds to the post from 10 pages ago. The only problem is it’s fucking tedious and nobody gives a shit. The discussion’s moved on.
 
mcfc1632 said:
Excellent post - and absolutely spot on

I see see @meltonblue on this page suggests that it is not true......

I will put that down to him not being a regular on the threads between 2016-2019 where there were scores of posts from Remainers demanding that everybody must recognise that Brexit is a Tory thing

Perhaps I should find a few choice examples - there was not end of hatred and vitriol
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And as I said on a response to that, I wouldn’t take a few replies on an Internet forum as proof that that lie has been successful.

The split in the Conservative party between support of vs wanting to leave the EU has been one of the key political issues and stories of the last decade. It would a monumental memory loss for people to think all conservatives supported leave.

Likewise it’s not as if the left argument for leaving wasn’t ever an issue either. You ask most people now and they’ll still say they thought Corbyn wanted to leave too.

I’m fine with the sentiment of some people now equate brexit solely with the Tory party as ultimately they’ve been accountable for the full delivery of it in terms of putting it into action post the referendum. Saying that the tories are anti Eu and so people must be Tory for supporting it is nowhere near the greatest political lie ever told though, it’s not even near the greatest lie told in the last 12 months!

What I would say on here is I do think for some, they are that invested in brexit (as there’s zealots on both sides) that they are willing to disregard the means at times, which would lead others to believe they potentially are more aligned with the tories than they’d readily admit.
 
Invisible Man's Bandage said:
The infantile, desperate attempts by the likes of Micron and the EU Commission to basically claim that the Oxford/Astra Zeneca vaccine is ineffective as a means of covering up their ineptitude are hardly likely to improve UK/EU relations.

I suspect they will be squirming a lot more in a few weeks as the success of our vaccine roll out becomes more apparent and they have even more flak coming their way from outraged EU citizens.
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Whilst I need to do some catching up and may regret saying this - from snippets I heard yesterday about the effectiveness and flexibility of delivery of the AZ vaccine, I suspect that Macron is going to regret mouthing off quite so much as 2021 unfolds ahead of this GE challenge.
 
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Vic said:
From my French friend...

An Englishman refuses the vaccine. The doctor says, “Be a gentleman, take the vaccine”. “On that basis, OK,” he says.

A German guy refuses the vaccine. The doctor says, “You’re ordered to take the vaccine”. “If it’s an order, OK,” he says.

An American refuses the vaccine. The doctor says, “All your neighbours have had it”. “In that case, OK,” he says.

A Frenchman refuses the vaccine. The doctor says, “You’re not entitled to it”. “What do you mean, I’m not entitled? – I demand you give it me now.”

(Maybe Macron using reverse psychology - if he says don't use the AZ vaccine, they'll all want it - and it's cheaper!)
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That - or perhaps he is just a ****;-)
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
Correct, it's a Government ineptitude issue, not solely a brexit one. Or have people forgotten that the CFP was one of the reasons fishermen voted leave in the first place.
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a half truth - they were told if they voted Leave they WOULD leave the CFP but that would open up world markets and they would be able to retain frictionless trade with the EU. Fresh shell fish is no longer fresh when it arrives on the other side of the world ( and they send a lot here also ) and frictionless was just an out and out lie, Johnson knew the 3rd country rules.
 
Three more industries struggling. Let’s hope there’s enough new jobs at the chocolate factory for everyone. Sad that some of the Brexit fans are still in denial in spite of the overwhelming evidence that Brexit is going extremely badly; much worse than most people imagined.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...gs-binned-because-of-brexit-red-tape-mps-hear
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/27/world/europe/truckers-uk-ports-brexit.html
https://www.ft.com/content/9fb6b591-73cc-4bb7-815a-dc8eb8ad47dd
Of course it’s not all about trade. Looks like the NI agreement is about to fall apart as well.
 
bluethrunthru said:
I am willing to bet only a tiny fraction of the people who work in fishing, the fish processing industry or haulage invest jack shit in Swiss stocks
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Ironic that some Brexiteers are welcoming the trading of Swiss shares in London whilst saying that the Swiss not approving the Astra Zeneca vaccine is justification for Brexit.
 
Grimes - thick as a KitKat chunky

Stevie Knicks

@SKnicks

@darrengrimes
- Dazza you bell - do you read anything you quote? Zero jobs created and nothing to do with Brexit. I may as well counter this with something also not to do with Brexit but Honda who have invested £2.5bn at Swindon are closing in the summer costing 7k jobs
Quote Tweet


oJBYavUl_mini.jpg


Darren Grimes

@darrengrimes_
· 5h
The most delicious fifteen million quid ever spent: The iconic Cadbury brand returns to Brexit Britain, we look more and more tempting with each passing day!

Face savouring food


Flag of United Kingdom


Chocolate bar
 
mcfc1632 said:
Here you go again - twisting the facts to support your narrative

Yes - I agree - you requested to discuss the subject of fishing many times

But always only with regard to the very narrow scope that you can grasp - i.e. what the situation was pre-Brexit. All you could refer to was what you can find out online re size of fleet, allocations of quotas etc.

At the time the topic was a key part of the negotiations and I was pointing out that you and others, having spent months deriding the UK and the fishing industry for being so inconsequential, resoundingly demonstrated your lack of understanding of the topic of fishing in the context of the negotiations

You have to date only shown an utter lack of understanding of managing negotiations - on that topic you had nothing to offer
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Is that an admission that, despite all the guff to the contrary, your heroes treated the UK fishing industry as merely a negotiating ploy?
 
Chris in London said:
This.

Fucking idiot politicians that don’t understand that signing legal documents has consequences even if they can’t be arsed reading them

;)

How’s it going down there mate? Mrs Smudge still got her work cut out?
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True, take Johnson who said he'd never agree an Irish Sea border, then agreed it, denied he'd agreed what he'd agreed, then implemented it and won an election on doing it and now says there must not be an Irish Sea border :)
 
Talking of Irish Sea borders, the man has a point, especially if you reconfigure your supply chains to avoid GB beforehand.

So far the NI Protocol has been overwhelmingly positive for us. There have been some supply issues with Ingredients coming from UK but over the last 3 years we have diverted supply chains accordingly. NI has the opportunity to benefit from being both part of UK and EU, grab it! @CEO Deli Lites.
 
Vic said:
Is that an admission that, despite all the guff to the contrary, your heroes treated the UK fishing industry as merely a negotiating ploy?
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Nope - that is just you - yet again - twisting the words of other people

And you wonder why so many posters choose not to engage with you
 
bit of late night viewing for Sammy Wilson, Kaye Hoey, John Redwood etc etc

 
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mcfc1632 said:
Nope - that is just you - yet again - twisting the words of other people

And you wonder why so many posters choose not to engage with you
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So you mean it wasn't a negotiating ploy and they really knew what they were doing to the fishing industry?
 
Vic said:
So you mean it wasn't a negotiating ploy and they really knew what they were doing to the fishing industry?
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Frosty was a genius eh? I have posted several things today that 1632 cannot respond to because there is no adequate defence
 
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