Post Match Thread: Election 2017

[lloydie]

I think it was the fact MEPs could only read it in about 10 mins, not allowed to take notes and under the watch of 2 US embassy guards that scared/angered me. They said it fell apart completely after Brexit though. If MEPs had to vote on it, wouldn't the house of commons and lords have to vote on it if they tried it just with us? I see your reasoning but I'm more confident MPs other than Tory would deny it - think that was my thought process at the time. Course depends on the makeup of the house if it's ever touted here (hopefully not).

That 10min was pure political drama though, at the time there were 100k's marching in Germany & France against TTIP whereas in this country nobody gave a fuck.

 

[Vic]

I see it's going to be the May-DUP coalition.

If nothing else good comes out of this chaos, grammar schools are dead.

 

[CitizenTID]

That 10min was pure political drama though, at the time there were 100k's marching in Germany & France against TTIP whereas in this country nobody gave a fuck.

Aye I remember that. Whenever I mentioned it to anybody they'd never heard of it. Such a monumental thing got no press here.

 

[meltonblue]

I think had the Lib Dems been pro-Brexit (following the popular vote), they'd have hit that sweet spot. They had reasonably sensible spending plans funded by taxing across the board. For the many, owned by the many.

I've always been a lib dem supporter and I do find a lot of people I speak to, their views align more closely with the lib dems manifesto than they realise.

Ultimately, they will be tainted by going into coalition with the Tories for a while yet (although I personally still think it was the right thing) and they need a change in leadership, and I found it a real shame they couldn't capitalise on what should have been
a very good oppportunity to regain some of the ground they lost two years ago.

From a partisan perspective though, I'm very happy that Cable regained his seat.

 

[BenjaniMwaruwari]

I still don't fully understand the optimism from the Labour party. The Conservatives had an absolutely abysmal campaign and they still beat them in terms of votes and seats.

I feel with a competent leader the Tories will just go back to having the sole majority

Could anybody open my eyes to what I'm missing?

 

[meltonblue]

Sorry, just to add, I don't disagree with their policy on the eu, but I did with the way they tried to sell it. Remain and leave were both still popular, there's nothing wrong with putting the case forward for still wanting to retain a lot of the existing arrangement.

 

[Brightwell’s left peg]

I still don't fully understand the optimism from the Labour party. The Conservatives had an absolutely abysmal campaign and they still beat them in terms of votes and seats.

I feel with a competent leader the Tories will just go back to having the sole majority

Could anybody open my eyes to what I'm missing?

It's like when city were shit and playing a top of the league rag team. Of course we wanted to beat them, but deep down we were just hoping we wouldn't get tonked.

However, come team sheet time the rags put out an under strength side, and we should have gone at them, but we didn't and lost to a fluky goal.

The history books will show we lost, but if our manager had been half decent we'd have taken the chance presented.

The optimists said we put up a good performance and there's no disgrace in the result, but you just know you could have done better.

Hope that helps?! ;-)

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

I still don't fully understand the optimism from the Labour party. The Conservatives had an absolutely abysmal campaign and they still beat them in terms of votes and seats.

I feel with a competent leader the Tories will just go back to having the sole majority

Could anybody open my eyes to what I'm missing?

it must be what an arsenal fan feels like finishing in the top four, rather then winning the league......

 

[BenjaniMwaruwari]

It's like when city were shit and playing a top of the league rag team. Of course we wanted to beat them, but deep down we were just hoping we wouldn't get tonked.

However, come team sheet time the rags put out an under strength side, and we should have gone at them, but we didn't and lost to a fluky goal.

The history books will show we lost, but if our manager had been half decent we'd have taken the chance presented.

The optimists said we put up a good performance and there's no disgrace in the result, but you just know you could have done better.

Hope that helps?! ;-)

That does help and I do understand what you mean, but I feel like this is a wake up call for the Tories if anything.

They went into this so over confident that they can get the majority without having to do any work and it fully backfired. However, I feel like 8 or so seats away from majority is the worse case scenario for them

Give them a competent leader and have an actual campaign and they will walk it, regardless of how well Labour run the campaign

I can see where Labour get the optimism, if it happens once it can happen again, but I feel like the Tories won't let it happen again.

Admittedly, I've only been able to vote for the past 2 elections so I'm not very education on the matter and the history of what happened, but that's just what it seems like to me.

 

[Vic]

If among the Tories' 300 MPs there was one competent leader, how come they appointed May? She was judged the least toxic - and still is!

I did persuade some anti - JC Labour voters that they could happily vote for their local Labour candidate as there was no chance that JC could be PM. I fancy that for every vote Labour lost that way there are now more who wouldn't vote Labour if they thought JC could be PM - but plenty more who could now reassess what they think of him - especially without Diane Abbott in the team (possibly her appointment will always be his worst decision as leader!). The next "Who would make best PM polls?" could be interesting.

And let's see what happens when the press start examining the individual anti-terrorist stance of DUP MPs. Over to you, Sun and the Mail. Actually the one policy where the mayDUP deal could work a miracle - the DUP wants to abolish the bedroom tax.

Otherwise it's an appalling prospect. (Don't bother with the video):
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.in...aramilitaries-peace-process-a7782631.html?amp

 

[cibaman]

That does help and I do understand what you mean, but I feel like this is a wake up call for the Tories if anything.

They went into this so over confident that they can get the majority without having to do any work and it fully backfired. However, I feel like 8 or so seats away from majority is the worse case scenario for them

Give them a competent leader and have an actual campaign and they will walk it, regardless of how well Labour run the campaign

I can see where Labour get the optimism, if it happens once it can happen again, but I feel like the Tories won't let it happen again.

Admittedly, I've only been able to vote for the past 2 elections so I'm not very education on the matter and the history of what happened, but that's just what it seems like to me.

The problem for the Tories (and the cause for optimism for Labour) is that there's a possibility of another election in the near future if the Tory-DUP alliance breaks down. Labour would go into that election with all of the momentum. I can't see Corbyn ever winning an overall majority but Labour only need the Tories to lose a few more seats for him to become PM.

 

[Brightwell’s left peg]

That does help and I do understand what you mean, but I feel like this is a wake up call for the Tories if anything.

They went into this so over confident that they can get the majority without having to do any work and it fully backfired. However, I feel like 8 or so seats away from majority is the worse case scenario for them

Give them a competent leader and have an actual campaign and they will walk it, regardless of how well Labour run the campaign

I can see where Labour get the optimism, if it happens once it can happen again, but I feel like the Tories won't let it happen again.

Admittedly, I've only been able to vote for the past 2 elections so I'm not very education on the matter and the history of what happened, but that's just what it seems like to me.

It's a wake up call, but a soft one as they are still in power. The Tory's 'worst case scenario' is still better than Labours 'victory' and sees them remain in power, just with a little bit of DUP ego massaging to contend with. Any Labour voters celebrating are celebrating a very hollow 'victory'. Unless of course they aspire to be a particularly annoying opposition/protest party, but not actually rulers.

Its like losing a boxing match and celebrating with your mates that you only broke your nose. Meanwhile your opposition took some blows/has some bruises, but he's still the one taking the good looking girl home and planning his next big fight.

(I'm drinking wine in a lounge before a long haul flight and I'm in an analogy mood. Apologies if they're not very good)

 

[jay_mcfc]

I still don't fully understand the optimism from the Labour party. The Conservatives had an absolutely abysmal campaign and they still beat them in terms of votes and seats.

I feel with a competent leader the Tories will just go back to having the sole majority

Could anybody open my eyes to what I'm missing?

1- This coalition will no way last five years, so another election is on the cards.

2- 72% Youth turn out. The kids have been awoken and this will crush the Tories.

3- People no longer believe it's akin to treason to vote for Corbyn.

4- The Sun and The Mail no longer dictate to people how they should vote. Social media is now numero uno.

5- All the mud they threw at Corbyn will no longer stick.

6- Momentum.

7- Who the hell do the Cons take on as leader now and how much can they get away from austerity?

8- Labour MP's can no longer question JC and his policies. JC is now the most powerful man in the UK.

9- Labour just took Kensington. KENSINGTON. KENSINGTON. The richest constituency in the land and now The Mail and the Duke of Cambridge have a Labour MP.

10- Hope.

 

[jay_mcfc]

It's a wake up call, but a soft one as they are still in power. The Tory's 'worst case scenario' is still better than Labours 'victory' and sees them remain in power, just with a little bit of DUP ego massaging to contend with. Any Labour voters celebrating are celebrating a very hollow 'victory'. Unless of course they aspire to be a particularly annoying opposition/protest party, but not actually rulers.

Its like losing a boxing match and celebrating with your mates that you only broke your nose. Meanwhile your opposition took some blows/has some bruises, but he's still the one taking the good looking girl home and planning his next big fight.

(I'm drinking wine in a lounge before a long haul flight and I'm in an analogy mood. Apologies if they're not very good)

Nope, it's not like that at all. Have you seen what's happened to the Lib Dems since their coalition? Anyone who thinks the Tories can just change their leader and they'll win a majority is fooling themselves. 72% youth turnout all because of one man who has all of the momentum. If JC stays on and there's another election within a couple of years there will only be one winner. He's turned everything upside down - Brexit, the press, TV, socialism, social media etc. And this Labour Party are far more likely to re-gain some of those northern and Scottish seats than the Cons are to do the same in the south and London. There are a lot of Con marginal seats that are there for the taking now people know it's acceptable to vote JC.

 

[Brightwell’s left peg]

Nope, it's not like that at all. Have you seen what's happened to the Lib Dems since their coalition? Anyone who thinks the Tories can just change their leader and they'll win a majority is fooling themselves. 72% youth turnout all because of one man who has all of the momentum. If JC stays on and there's another election within a couple of years there will only be one winner. He's turned everything upside down - Brexit, the press, TV, socialism, social media etc. And this Labour Party are far more likely to re-gain some of those northern and Scottish seats than the Cons are to do the same in the south and London. There are a lot of Con marginal seats that are there for the taking now people know it's acceptable to vote JC.

With respect, what's happened to the lib dems is as irrelevant as the lib dems themselves.

So if you're right, and if I was a Tory, with JC looming and all his 'momentum', why would I call an election in the next couple of years? That's the ultimate turkey voting for christmas analogy. Might as well stick it out for the full 5 years. Again, and it's a point a lot seem to be missing, the Tories have the power and they get to call when the next election is.

Labour were given an unexpected early shot, and they've missed. They might not get another one for 5 years. If you can predict what's going to happen between now and 5 years time you're wasted on Bluemoon, and should be earning millions on the stock exchange. Perversely, odds are you'd be a Tory voter if that were the case.

 

[Gabriel]

With respect, what's happened to the lib dems is as irrelevant as the lib dems themselves.

So if you're right, and if I was a Tory, with JC looming and all his 'momentum', why would I call an election in the next couple of years? That's the ultimate turkey voting for christmas analogy. Might as well stick it out for the full 5 years. Again, and it's a point a lot seem to be missing, the Tories have the power and they get to call when the next election is.

Labour were given an unexpected early shot, and they've missed. They might not get another one for 5 years. If you can predict what's going to happen between now and 5 years time you're wasted on Bluemoon, and should be earning millions on the stock exchange. Perversely, odds are you'd be a Tory voter if that were the case.

That's true, but only up to a point. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, we can expect around 20 by-elections over the course of 5 years, and with such a fragile position and no formal coalition agreed, the conditions will be extremely unpredictable.

 

[Gabriel]

1- This coalition will no way last five years, so another election is on the cards.

2- 72% Youth turn out. The kids have been awoken and this will crush the Tories.

3- People no longer believe it's akin to treason to vote for Corbyn.

4- The Sun and The Mail no longer dictate to people how they should vote. Social media is now numero uno.

5- All the mud they threw at Corbyn will no longer stick.

6- Momentum.

7- Who the hell do the Cons take on as leader now and how much can they get away from austerity?

8- Labour MP's can no longer question JC and his policies. JC is now the most powerful man in the UK.

9- Labour just took Kensington. KENSINGTON. KENSINGTON. The richest constituency in the land and now The Mail and the Duke of Cambridge have a Labour MP.

10- Hope.

I sense your elation but perhaps you could slightly hedge some of your statements.

2. Not all young people can have voted against the Conservatives.
4. The Sun and Mail still influence how some people vote, as not everyone depends on or even uses social media.
5. We cannot know how much mud has stuck and will remain.
6. Momentum in one campaign does not necessarily transfer into a parliament or the next election.
8. Corbyn is arguably the most important man in the Labour Party.

Hope, :-), that is fairer.

 

[cibaman]

Apparently Ruth Davidson is demanding greater independence for the Scottish tories. The Scottish tories are against hard brexit (not really surprising). Another nail in the coffin of hard brexit.

 

[cibaman]

The game changer will be if Labour get a sniff of power and they change the mechanics of voting, to enable casting your vote online.

Yesterday, in 2017, I voted using a pencil secured with a piece of string. Unbelievable, when you step back and think about it.

At my polling station the queue to collect your ballot paper ran between two lines of voting booths. You could literally reach out and touch voters as they filled in their votes. A secret ballot it wasn't.

 

[Damocles]

1- This coalition will no way last five years, so another election is on the cards.

2- 72% Youth turn out. The kids have been awoken and this will crush the Tories.

3- People no longer believe it's akin to treason to vote for Corbyn.

4- The Sun and The Mail no longer dictate to people how they should vote. Social media is now numero uno.

5- All the mud they threw at Corbyn will no longer stick.

6- Momentum.

7- Who the hell do the Cons take on as leader now and how much can they get away from austerity?

8- Labour MP's can no longer question JC and his policies. JC is now the most powerful man in the UK.

9- Labour just took Kensington. KENSINGTON. KENSINGTON. The richest constituency in the land and now The Mail and the Duke of Cambridge have a Labour MP.

10- Hope.

And we completely lost the election which means 5 more years of austerity and failing support for the neediest in society, because people were more interested in feeling good about themselves than they were winning the election.

This isn't a win. Celebrating this result while failing to help the people who need it is an absolute disgrace and people should be ashamed for it.