I'm not 'a Tory'.LOL...You're a Tory mate, why should anyone give a shit what you think is good for the Labour party.
As we're talking football analogies, maybe Pep should give Ferguson a ring and ask who we should buy this summer.
Might be another one soon.
If it is not possible to find common ground to corral voters, then I would simply state "Good luck running a Socialist in Britain!"And the one that can will be a selfish money grabbing Tory in Socialist clothing that once in power will ignore the poor in the hope of ingratiating himself with said Conservatives.
Some people still don't get it. For the time being there is no centre ground. That was the scale of Corbyn's achievement over the last few weeks.If it is not possible to find common ground to corral voters, then I would simply state "Good luck running a Socialist in Britain!"
There is a middle ground, but if Labour is going to run to the far right, then they will always miss out on the voter who holds their nose to vote Conservative and was really looking for a more moderate view of Britain from a Labour leader.
If not this time, when?
I was pointing out what, how, and how to improve, you said "game over," so I postulated there might be another game soon.You took a lot from that post
Your a Tory admit it or I'll send you for a lie detector on the kyle show, we know where your aligence lieI'm not 'a Tory'.
I've voted Labour, Libs twice and Tory twice.
I don't pick a side and then vote for them relentlessly. Politics isn't football. That's something I don't think you'll ever understand.
Some people confuse ideology with politics. Corbyn, and today's Labour Party, are great at spouting ideology, but if they don't have the political brains to ever get into power, ideology is just a bunch of slogans for the losers!Some people still don't get it. For the time being there is no centre ground. That was the scale of Corbyn's achievement over the last few weeks.
I have to say, It really is laughable to suggest that the DUP are 'terrorists in the same way that Sinn Fein were/are.
Just some straightforward research will tell you that The DUP has always totally condemned any sort of terrorism which should be met by the full force of the law.
Both Ian Paisley and his son would have gone ballistic at the thought of illegally killing anyone. As does the current party leadership.
Yes the party had links with the UDA but only in thes same way that the British Government has back-channels to the UDA/UFF and IRA. Indeed any DUP member found dealing will illegal UDA/UFF activity is expelled from the party.
If you read up on the DUP you will find that it is pretty much is the UKIP of Northern Ireland with added Protestant fundamentalism.
Ha. This is what people that are dyed in the wool Tories and Labour supporters don't understand.Your a Tory admit it or I'll send you for a lie detector on the kyle show, we know where your aligence lie
Thatcher was right because the country needed a fundamental & drastic change in its inevitable path of slow decline. Blair was right because she went too far and the country wanted a market economy but with some social justice. But Blair's government was still to the right of Heath's, which is staggering when you think of it.
Now it's a case of austerity having gone too far. People would have accepted that if there'd been some benefit coming out of it but the only prospect is yet more of the same, degradation of public services to an unacceptable degree and falls in real wages. They've had enough and many think there's a better way. The political ground has started to shift very significantly in my view.
I think people have been conned into thinking what other people tell them they should think. They have been told that if we ask those who can afford it to pay a bit more tax then they are going to up sticks and leave turning this country into a wasteland. I personally know of people living on minimum wages on a council estate but who choose to vote Tory. Talk of turkeys voting for Christmas. You couldn't make it up. The power of propaganda can't be underestimated. It has come to the point where anyone who speaks up openly for the needs of the downtrodden is labelled as some kind of Marxist Leninist throwback(Corbyn) to be ridiculed for following an outdated and discredited creed. The accepted and acceptable creed being that of the middle and upper middle classes, namely that everybody should be able to make a better life for themselves by pulling up their bootstraps and working hard. While this is an admirable stance, ( I'm self employed and do quite well for myself and I'm quite ambitious for my children) not everyone is in a position to adequately fend for themselves. It should be a function of the state to ensure basic needs are adequately met for the population at large and not just provide a bare, grudging minimum of services by constantly clawing away and under mining funding. We are one of the richest countries in the world and we can afford it. The problem is ideologically since Mrs Thatcher we choose not to. It's a question of priorities. People have been conditioned to think that is the way it is and that is the way it has to be. This message has been put out by politicians and reinforced by the right wing media and people have nought into it. This is why you get people protesting about A and E closures and then going out and voting Tory.
Well it doesn't have to be that way.
What is needed is someone to slay this dragon. People need understand that public services are fundable without the sky falling in. Do we want to carry on making the rich richer or do we want to give our people the best life we can. While the working class has capitulated in it's struggle of making life better for the weak, the Tories have kept up their's, at the same time co opting us into helping them in the name of social mobility.
I just think Corbyn might finally be the man to connect with people to change their thinking and fight for their own interests rather than being wannabe Tories, hoping for social mobility and leaving behind the vulnerable and needy to fend for themselves the best they can. That you can't expect people who have been born into wealth and never experienced hardship to know what hardship feels like and therefore to sympathise and alleviate yours.
I know what I am saying may be the triumph of hope over expectation but I hope Corbyn is that man and I hope he succeeds.
If he fails I'll just go back onto my pit of despair for the future of the working class people of this country.
Then SF and DUP shouldn't be allowed to stand.Niether political wing of these groups should have a say over how the 4 nations of the UK go forward, England , Scotland and Wales didn't vote for this kind of party to have sway.
You just don't seem to get it. People don't want less of the same from a Tory-lite Labour Party. They want more of something different. Had it not been for the backlash against wee Jimmy Krankie in Scotland and the Tories in England being propped up by the death of the UKIP vote, Corbyn would be in a very strong position to form the next government this weekend.Some people confuse ideology with politics. Corbyn, and today's Labour Party, are great at spouting ideology, but if they don't have the political brains to ever get into power, ideology is just a bunch of slogans for the losers!
Genuine question... why?I've no doubt, but he'll never lead the Labour party.
I'm not 'a Tory'.
I've voted Labour, Libs twice and Tory twice.
I don't pick a side and then vote for them relentlessly. Politics isn't football. That's something I don't think you'll ever understand.
What about Chuka (sp) the party seemed to give up easy when he cited family reasons not to standOptions bar corbyn in the last 2 leadership elections would have fared no better imho
how I believe they would have fared if they had been leader
Cooper - may have won a similar number of seats , but doubt it
Liz kendal - not a chance we would be wiped out now.
Andy burnham - Probably as many seats as now or a couple more than milliband
Owen smith - see Liz Kendall
the mebership was dropping and we were failing to get the youth and traditional labour vote energized since 2010 and none of those who ha also attempted to be leader would have done any better , tired soundbite style bullshit politicians, only burnham has the cameleonic ability to change tact to suit. out of them, but doubt he would have made much difference.
One reason labour improved was the grassroot contribution doorstepping and those load of numpties would not have enegised as many to come out as has.
Example of this is woodcocks campaign, spent 2 years slaging of corbyn and pissing off the membership, when it came to rhe campaign he at first struggled to get support canvassing with him from members who were pissed off with his attitude and bullshit the last 2 years. (though they did come out despite this to help for the good of the party)
None of the above would have increased tge youth vote either imho.
Also the right side of labour in fight as much as the left, they did it in the 80's and throughout government.
Jezza aint perfect, but credit to him that he proved the progress lot wrong and we need never go back to the liles of ed balls, dave milliband and tristham hunt.
Genuine question... why?
I've a lot of time for your posts, PB and you may well be right.
But I still return to the fact thought that to me it is staggering that after:
and on the other hand:
- 6 years of really painful Tory cuts
- deep cuts to our police force and then right at the time of the election, the worst terrorist acts we've seen in this country for years
- A PM who resided over said cuts
- A shockingly bad Tory campaign
- A PM who proved to be a joke; a laughing stock amongst many on both sides
- No vision painted by the Tories, of hope and how things will be better
- a Labour gift of £28,000 to everyone wanting to go to university (50% of young people)
- a Labour manifesto that promised 95% of people they'd be better off or no worse off
- Labour promises to fix all our public services
The Conservatives STILL won. How on earth did that happen? How on earth did the Tories win??? In all normal circumstances, they'd have had their arses handed to them.
The mathematical answer, is that Labour started too far back. They made up enormous ground, but were never going to catch up enough. But that's a trivial answer, and doesn't get to the root of it. WHY were they so far behind to start with? Corbyn has been so deeply unpopular in the public at large, and we have to ask, why is that? Well part of it is certainly down to the media, who clearly hate him. But surely that cannot explain all of it? Why is he so unpopular amongst his own MPs?
In my view, he is simply too left wing to ever be what the country wants or needs. We are no longer a nation of millions of unskilled workers being exploited by evil employers. Powerful hard left unions and union leaders yelling out brothers out, is no longer appropriate in this country. We are country of highly skilled, highly paid employees with excellent relations with their employers. Sensible pay demands (and pay) and no strike agreements. This is the modern reality. Corbyn wishes to return us to what he remembers as a golden era where the unions held the power; the state owned the assets; rich people weren't so rich. Hardly anyone else wants this anymore.
Working class people have aspirations not to be working class. They don't want to work on the shop floor doing menial tasks for poor pay all their lives; they are upwardly mobile. They want a better life for themselves and their kids. Perhaps they want to own their own business. They want to live in a country where business is allowed to thrive, because they want where they work to thrive. Or their own business to thrive.
But some of Corbyn's entourage don't get it. I heard one of his supporters on the TV being asked what she hoped for most in a Corbyn government. She replied, I want the rich to be paid less. That was her very sad 1st priority. Forget making the country better; she just wants other people to be worse off. Corbyn still has some of that in him; a bitter resentment of anyone successful. The broader public can smell it and they don't like it.
Or maybe labours bribe of free university places didn't work in scotland.You just don't seem to get it. People don't want less of the same from a Tory-lite Labour Party. They want more of something different. Had it not been for the backlash against wee Jimmy Krankie in Scotland and the Tories in England being propped up by the death of the UKIP vote, Corbyn would be in a very strong position to form the next government this weekend.
Then SF and DUP shouldn't be allowed to stand.
Every voter knows how a GE works as does every party.
There's no rule that states "a party unable to garner a majority of seats can only form any coalition based on how much Urban Genie can stand them".