Post Match Thread: Election 2017

[Gabriel]

Miliband would have walked that election and the young would have voted for him in their droves.

Just to help anyone dropping in on this conversation, you're discussing David, yes?

 

[ChicagoBlue]

You just don't seem to get it. People don't want less of the same from a Tory-lite Labour Party. They want more of something different. Had it not been for the backlash against wee Jimmy Krankie in Scotland and the Tories in England being propped up by the death of the UKIP vote, Corbyn would be in a very strong position to form the next government this weekend.

You sound like a US Democrat! "We almost did it but everyone seemed to help the R keep power!" Do you know how pathetic it sounds when you promote that other people helped the opposition, rather than your own candidate was good enough to win?

The further each side runs to their extreme, the less appetizing they look to the majority that lives in the center. I'm not endorsing a Tory-lite Labour Party or a Labour-lite Tory Party, but a Centrist candidate that speaks to policies and politics that a majority of the country can get behind.

Britain faces some significant challenges in the near future and now, with a weakened Conservative Party "leading" the country and a Labour Party in shambles from their missed opportunity, those challenges get even more difficult. I believe a more centrist candidate pushing more centrist policies, even if there are still significantly "Labour" imperatives included in there, is their way forward.

 

[The perfect fumble]

That's the thing Fumble and you're still not getting.

In the main, one doesn't pick a football team. They are taken at an early age to the ground. They keep being taken. They fall in love with the club and stay with them whatever happens.

With politics it's different. Each time they vote, they are doing so for the party they believe can best run the country at that time.

By asking a question like that then you simply prove my point. You'd vote Labour whoever was in charge. Whatever the manifesto. You've admitted being a party member for 40 years. You campaigned for Blair. That's nothing to be proud of. Was the Blair manifesto anything like the Corbyn one? Or the Kinnock one? Or the Foot one? No, it really wasn't. But I dare say you'd have espoused their individual virtues at each time like the evangelical Labour supporter you are.

Do you not understand that there are floating voters? Do you not understand why they hold sway at each election?

I understand there are floating voters, what you cannot comprehend and this is the crux of your problem of comprehension, is that it is not an inviolate law that floating voters float to the right.

You see narrow economic self interest, divide and rule, as irreversible laws of politics. That empathy and social justice is for the lunatic fringes and the naïve young.

Well you're going to be proved wrong, because divide and rule has got us here and here is not a happy place, it is a hopeless place and the young in particular feel it every day.

The right might have the power now, but they don't have the answers for the future.

There's a sea change taking place in politics and it's sad you can see it.

 

[SWP's back]

Just to help anyone dropping in on this conversation, you're discussing David, yes?

Yes. Met him twice and listened to him half a dozen times. I'm still at a loss of Ed pushed him out.

 

[SWP's back]

I understand there are floating voters, what you cannot comprehend and this is the crux of your problem of comprehension, is that it is not an inviolate law that floating voters float to the right.

You see narrow economic self interest, divide and rule, as irreversible laws of politics. That empathy and social justice is for the lunatic fringes and the naïve young.

Well you're going to be proved wrong, because divide and rule has got us here and here is not a happy place, it is a hopeless place and the young in particular feel it every day.

The right might have the power now, but they don't have the answers for the future.

There's a sea change taking place in politics and it's sad you can see it.

Can you put a date on it? It's just so long as it's in some wishy washy future then it's hard to nail down when I can say "I told you so".

 

[The perfect fumble]

Miliband would have walked that election and the young would have voted for him in their droves.

You been away too long, or you take the young for fools.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Can you put a date on it? It's just so long as it's in some wishy washy future then it's hard to nail down when I can say "I told you so".

You seem a very sad bloke.

 

[Gelsons Dad]

You just don't seem to get it. People don't want less of the same from a Tory-lite Labour Party. They want more of something different. Had it not been for the backlash against wee Jimmy Krankie in Scotland and the Tories in England being propped up by the death of the UKIP vote, Corbyn would be in a very strong position to form the next government this weekend.

That maths just doesn't add up i'm afraid.

 

[SWP's back]

You seem a very sad bloke.

No fumble. I'm 35, comfortable, married to a beautiful and sweet woman and not remotely sad nor bitter.

I wouldn't swap places with you for all the tea in China.

 

[SWP's back]

You been away too long, or you take the young for fools.

I'll take my queues as to what the young would do from the sexagenarian who will be collecting his bus pass and means tested winter fuel allowance by the time the next scheduled GE comes around. Right then.

 

[hilts]

I understand there are floating voters, what you cannot comprehend and this is the crux of your problem of comprehension, is that it is not an inviolate law that floating voters float to the right.

You see narrow economic self interest, divide and rule, as irreversible laws of politics. That empathy and social justice is for the lunatic fringes and the naïve young.

Well you're going to be proved wrong, because divide and rule has got us here and here is not a happy place, it is a hopeless place and the young in particular feel it every day.

The right might have the power now, but they don't have the answers for the future.

There's a sea change taking place in politics and it's sad you can see it.

Everyday? Bloody hell poor sods

 

[Magicpole]

Talking about ministerial jobs for the DUP now. You couldn't make it up.

The MInistry of Bigotry, Creationism and LGBT Persecution.

 

[CitizenTID]

The petition is pointless (and mis-titled). 13,640,000 voted Tory.

A GE has just taken place. That's a far more democratic tool than a pointless petition started by a busy **** and spread via social media.

Haha, it's with regards to the DUP - there are legitimate reasons to petition but I'm not sure this one references the GFA etc.

 

[Chippy_boy]

You overstate the skilled nature of our workforce and the relationship with the companies they work for

Of course there's still injustices, and my paragraph was necessarily an oversimplification.

But when you think about it, the dynamic has changed a lot. In the 50's and 60's we employed millions of people in ship building, mining, steel making. These were in the main, unskilled or perhaps semi-skilled jobs. Workers were commodity resources and treated as such by their employers. In that environment, powerful unions served a valuable purpose.

Today these industries are largely gone. Car manufacture remains, but the likes of Honda in Swindon employ thousands of highly skilled workers. Skills shortages are an issue and the workers are a highly valued asset, and treated as such. Honda strive to produce high quality product. Defects per car have come down from around 100 in 1970 to less than 3 by the turn of the millennium. Productivity is key and strikes are almost unthinkable. The workers in businesses like this are highly motivated and share in the success of the company. This is the progressive future we want, surely? The likes of McCluskey are dinosaurs from a past which has little or no relevance today.

 

[Chippy_boy]

dont be silly
no one won, everyone lost

I'm reminded of Animal Farm.

All animals are equal, it's just that some animals are more equal than others. There's "lost" and then there's actually lost.

 

[Gabriel]

The MInistry of Bigotry, Creationism and LGBT Persecution.

Just hope Theresa May offers them 'cheese and pineapple on a stick' when they come to No10.

 

[law74]

That's totally wrong for two reasons.

Firstly, the Labour Party could have simply taken those SNP votes that the Tories took.

Secondly, the swing from UKIP to Labour was greater than UKIP to Tory. The falling apart of the UKIP vote helped Labour more than Conservative.

With the surge of new voters (reported that 72% of 18 -24 year old son voted), it is impossible to say who benefited most from the demise of UKIP.
One probable explanation why the tories done so well in Scotland is that the Scottish Labour party have been very anti-Corbyn, and in places told their supporters to vote tory to defeat the SNP.

Another interesting development going forward is what (if any) damage will be done to the tory reputation for getting into bed with the creationist, climate change deniers, anti LGBT & abortion religious zealots of the DUP?

 

[hilts]

Of course there's still injustices, and my paragraph was necessarily an oversimplification.

But when you think about it, the dynamic has changed a lot. In the 50's and 60's we employed millions of people in ship building, mining, steel making. These were in the main, unskilled or perhaps semi-skilled jobs. Workers were commodity resources and treated as such by their employers. In that environment, powerful unions served a valuable purpose.

Today these industries are largely gone. Car manufacture remains, but the likes of Honda in Swindon employ thousands of highly skilled workers. Skills shortages are an issue and the workers are a highly valued asset, and treated as such. Honda strive to produce high quality product. Defects per car have come down from around 100 in 1970 to less than 3 by the turn of the millennium. Productivity is key and strikes are almost unthinkable. The workers in businesses like this are highly motivated and share in the success of the company. This is the progressive future we want, surely? The likes of McCluskey are dinosaurs from a past which has little or no relevance today.

Labours goal is to help those on or a few quid above minimum wage and rightly so, your Honda analogy doesn't apply to them people

My limited dealings with unions have not been good I must admit.

 

[Chippy_boy]

You seem a very sad bloke.

Blimey, that's ironic.

Strikes me that SWP is pretty darned contented. I know I am. I may be unemployed, but I am thoroughly enjoying my new freedom.

Seems to me the people who are constantly moaning about how terrible things are, are NOT me or SWP.

 

[SWP's back]

Another interesting development going forward is what (if any) damage will be done to the tory reputation for getting into bed with the creationist, climate change deniers, anti LGBT & abortion religious zealots of the DUP?

They deserve everything they get.