President Joe Biden

[SWP's back]

Is that reliable or accurate Sam? Genuine q, or is it electoral promises that are actually just fine words and windy rhetoric?

Moody’s are non political and generally very accurate (for economists).

 

[Vic]

And there it is.

Probably highlighted a little more than the other posters have done, but the echoes are evident enough to encompass the fellow thinkers. The mainstream media have indoctrinated similar to yourself, so it's not your fault.

You're so focused on individuals when the ideologies are at stake. 'Sleepy/Smilin' Joe', 'The Orange Blimp' and 'Crazy Bernie' are just representatives of what's wrong in the States and in the UK.

I would rather listen to a disheveled person with all the right ideas than a polished one speaking bullshit. One is not thinking of themselves as the thoughts are more important than the appearance of thought.

You could strip this down to ideology as a substance and it holds true.

For example, nobody else on this board blowing Biden's old cock seems to care that Flint doesn't have clean water and both parties are complicit for this affecting thousands of people. They're not bothered by Biden being endorsed by Michigan's "Poisoner-in-Chief" Rick Snyder or bothered that he owes 60 Billionaires something back. Only I've mentioned it.

And these are just a couple of things.

To the majority on this thread, it doesn't matter HOW anyone got here, they're just 'here'. If that premise was held about the Universe, the same many on here would squint suspicion about that thought process!

Anyway, the US kids can see the problems with incrementalism and I'm glad they're not playing ball anymore. They will continue to vote down ballot and force this change even if they vote or don't vote at the top of the ticket.

Good for them.

Why are you quoting this stuff in response to my post?

"You're so focused on individuals when the ideologies are at stake. 'Sleepy/Smilin' Joe', 'The Orange Blimp' and 'Crazy Bernie' are just representatives of what's wrong in the States and in the UK."

I thought I was on about ideology, the ideology of good versus evil, between democracy and fascism, independent judges versus political placements, EPA run by environmentalists rather than anti-environmentalists.

Biden didn't go down well in Flint, and Snyder's endorsement may not help, but neither did Sanders. But just what do you think voting for Trump is going to do for Flint? I don't know your connection with Flint but I'll go with Michael Moore: “Don’t leave it to the Democrats to get rid of Trump. YOU have to get rid of Trump."

 

[DrBlueBob]

I will say Point 2 is more about lessons learned of the past for future gain otherwise we'll be here again in 4-8 years, battling between neolib shades of dark grey/ black.

I suppose the question could have been framed differently but the point stands, especially as we seem to keep saying we must learn but somehow it never seems to happen. I suppose that relates to those in power of high opposition not effecting change.

Are the electorate ready to cede some power those who we should be helping? I'm not talking here about the really poor end of society who need help but a more general sharing of wealth. It is easy to pontificate about you agree with in principle with more social equality but I would posit that often times, in fact the majority of times, when push comes to shove most people don't want see themselves out of pocket.

The human condition seems to be self preservation and greed so as much as we would like something to happen, actually voting for it may cause at most a feeling of guilt but that is easily reconciled by doing the "right" thing by yourself and those you love.

We don't seem to be very good as a species at learning lessons like that.

 

[DrBlueBob]

Moody’s are non political and generally very accurate (for economists).

Cheers, good to know.

p.s. don't let @SebastianBlue see what you've said about economists. Oops I've let the cat out of the bag.!

 

[SWP's back]

Anyway, the US kids can see the problems with incrementalism and I'm glad they're not playing ball anymore. They will continue to vote down ballot and force this change even if they vote or don't vote at the top of the ticket.

Good for them.

Ahem....

 

[Bigga]

I thought I was on about ideology, the ideology of good versus evil, between democracy and fascism, independent judges versus political placements, EPA run by environmentalists rather than anti-environmentalists.

Since this is the most prevalent post of your response I'll answer it.

The umbrella above all what you've said is an economic ideology in my opinion.

White Karl Briggs is not going to be bothered by Black Carl Brigs if his wealth is enough to allow his family not to struggle. Black Carl is not going to feel aggrieved at the notion that White Karl is living in a much nicer house if his family is in the same block, in the same neighbourhood with a similar priced house.

The politician that makes this happen negates the 'good vs evil', 'democracy and fascism' and 'independent judges versus political placements' nonsense that is a diversification from the problem of neoliberalism.

Neoliberalism is a system designed to disenfranchise demographics as you've noted in your 'versus' point. A politician cannot be a neolib AND serve the people. It's just not how the system works.

It's just easier to divide and blame and by doing so, the system takes a back seat and watches the ensuing chaos raking in money for the billionaires as a result.

You can look at almost anything to see the result of exploitation of this in real time.

*At this point I've just realised that I go down the route I want to, I will become myopic in trying to show my point only to be greeted with "none of that matters", so I will just save my energy on an utterly pointless discussion.

 

[Bigga]

I suppose the question could have been framed differently but the point stands, especially as we seem to keep saying we must learn but somehow it never seems to happen. I suppose that relates to those in power of high opposition not effecting change.

Are the electorate ready to cede some power those who we should be helping? I'm not talking here about the really poor end of society who need help but a more general sharing of wealth. It is easy to pontificate about you agree with in principle with more social equality but I would posit that often times, in fact the majority of times, when push comes to shove most people don't want see themselves out of pocket.

The human condition seems to be self preservation and greed so as much as we would like something to happen, actually voting for it may cause at most a feeling of guilt but that is easily reconciled by doing the "right" thing by yourself and those you love.

We don't seem to be very good as a species at learning lessons like that.

The current set of electorate (in power) are not going to cede any part of meaningful power to those they should be helping. This is why Progressives, who are being voted in down ballot, are making a difference.

They are the ones who are taking no corporate money as the ideology is to serve the people first.

It's a pledge that people love and so gives you hope that the Human condition is not a self serving one and I don't believe it is.

The majority of posters on here dislike what I have to say cos I'm a people before money kind of person. I'd like to think we could actually build a future for our kids, but when this generation of elders are dismissing concerns (how did certain posters put it "Nobody gives a shit about Progressives"?) of young voices, it looks like the dismissed will be the ones to build a future for their kids.

The last few generations have failed them.

 

[Bigga]

Ahem....

I'm not sure what this point is, especially if you actually READ my post, not skip over it.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Since this is the most prevalent post of your response I'll answer it.

The umbrella above all what you've said is an economic ideology in my opinion.

White Karl Briggs is not going to be bothered by Black Carl Brigs if his wealth is enough to allow his family not to struggle. Black Carl is not going to feel aggrieved at the notion that White Karl is living in a much nicer house if his family is in the same block, in the same neighbourhood with a similar priced house.

The politician that makes this happen negates the 'good vs evil', 'democracy and fascism' and 'independent judges versus political placements' nonsense that is a diversification from the problem of neoliberalism.

Neoliberalism is a system designed to disenfranchise demographics as you've noted in your 'versus' point. A politician cannot be a neolib AND serve the people. It's just not how the system works.

It's just easier to divide and blame and by doing so, the system takes a back seat and watches the ensuing chaos raking in money for the billionaires as a result.

You can look at almost anything to see the result of exploitation of this in real time.

*At this point I've just realised that I go down the route I want to, I will become myopic in trying to show my point only to be greeted with "none of that matters", so I will just save my energy on an utterly pointless discussion.

How do you actually change America though, ever?
I think the place is too far gone, as is much of the Western world I suppose.
The US leads the way though of how big business and industry controls government.
What is trying to take over now though is off the scale. In my book there is far too much influence for the fundamentalists. If it was the Middle East we would be ridiculing the backwardness of where society seems to be heading.

 

[Bigga]

How do you actually change America though, ever?
I think the place is too far gone, as is much of the Western world I suppose.
The US leads the way though of how big business and industry controls government.
What is trying to take over now though is off the scale. In my book there is far too much influence for the fundamentalists. If it was the Middle East we would be ridiculing the backwardness of where society seems to be heading.

What you say is extremely true, but no Americans will freely admit this. Well, none that support neoliberalism. It's shockingly ironic that the US looks like a Third World country in some parts and like the Taliban in others. Separating and suppressing the vote, levels close to civil war, having "access to healthcare" (which basically means any money you can start saving up towards your care is 'access'!) and a guy wanting to be 'strong man' president.

All while you have head shaking levels wealth gained by the 1% juxtaposed against people losing their jobs and homes due to a virus that the 1% benefit from.

It's fooking nuts how a 'great' country steeped in the virtues of freedom is so full of contradiction and chaos!