Refugee crisis

inbetween said:
I always find the reaction of the Saudi's utterly bizarre, even their amassed fortune and existence quite literally goes against the core principles of their own supposed devout Islam society. They ought to be ashamed but then again they are a bit like Israel who just have a law unto themselves but even the Israeli's have shown to have a heart in this. It is written in the Quran that Muslims should assist where they can in their hours of need and where are they? For a country where any other religion is illegal and one which employs Police to punish those not following their religion, it is really quite ironic that they sit there and do nothing.

Anyway this isn't about religion but maybe for once it should be? The hypocrisy sometimes is unbelievable.
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The thing is though Islam is fragmented so it doesn't mean a Muslim will help another Muslim.Sectarianism plays a huge part in the conflicts.
Put Iran & Russia in the Syrian mess & it doesnt take a large iq to see the shit is going to hit the fan.
"Russian soldiers and armoured vehicles fighting alongside pro-Assad troops",thats happening now & Putin is increasing Russia's presence.
SO if Russia are increasing support for President Bashar al-Assad of Syria & the West wants him out the situation is going to get worse,a lot worse.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
They did receive it and rejected it. There is no credible report of citizenship being offered after the wife and kids died.
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I can only go off what CNN are saying. Whether it's playing on words I don't know.

His brother was interviewed by Reuters and stated that Canadian officials had now offered him citizenship after seeing what had happened to his family, but that he has declined.
 
Also, the family were Syrian Kurds, who were, as a group, denied citizenship in Syria for many years. This means they have no passports. A few were granted citizenship in 2011 but the civil war stopped that. Without passports, they were forced ot stay in refugee camps, whereas those with Syrian passports were given permits to remain in Turkey for 12 months and to move on if they wanted.

Without passports they can't get exit visas from Turkey and without exit visas they can't get out, meaning no one would take them.
 
bluemanc said:
Its not spin its the truth.The family were offered Canadian Citizenship,i'll repeat THE FAMILY WERE OFFERED CANADIAN CITIZENSHIP.
THEY REFUSED.
I couldnt care less that you are in denial about what the father has done,but it doesn't alter the fact his actions have caused the death of that child on the beach.
As for the dismissing of neighbouring countries REFUSING to take migrants,thats a FACT aswell,
Monkfish is not going to be happy when he decides to google both those facts and finds them to be true.
Notice how both of you have got personal & i haven't bit?finger hovering over the report button at my first go back i'll bet.
Like i said the 2 points are factual,good luck dealing with them.
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From where have you deduced that they were offered Canadian Citizenship and refused? Did your local branch of UKIP tell you that or was it on a Katie Hopkins blog?

I'd suggest you learn how to use a dictionary and look up the definition of fact. I'm fairly certain what it won't say is "anything written in capital letters on a forum". Otherwise it'd be really easy for me to write BLUEMANC IS A BIGOT AND AN ISLAMOPHOBE and thus completely dismiss anything you have to say on the subject.
 
bluemanc said:
The thing is though Islam is fragmented so it doesn't mean a Muslim will help another Muslim.Sectarianism plays a huge part in the conflicts.
Put Iran & Russia in the Syrian mess & it doesnt take a large iq to see the shit is going to hit the fan.
"Russian soldiers and armoured vehicles fighting alongside pro-Assad troops",thats happening now & Putin is increasing Russia's presence.
SO if Russia are increasing support for President Bashar al-Assad of Syria & the West wants him out the situation is going to get worse,a lot worse.
Click to expand...

Of course but still it is against the principles of Islam regardless, surely for a country so driven by religion you would think that sometimes being a human transcends those differences between groups. In war, if your ship sinks another ship, you save the crew and take them prisoner but you don't let them drown. The Saudi's aren't doing the shooting but they are definitely leaving the crew, pulling the ladder up and driving off into the sunset. I think they have a lot to answer for and for a country with the 2nd greatest military spending budget in the world, they are a pathetic country.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
They did receive it and rejected it. There is no credible report of citizenship being offered after the wife and kids died.
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They didnt reject it,that is false.
The process of application was imminent,they were doing the same for another member of the family,they were even paying the familys rent until they could put it through.
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...ada-rejected-drowned-boys-refugee-application
Earlier reports said Canada rejected a refugee application from the boy’s family in June. But the boy’s B.C.-based aunt clarified Thursday, saying she had not yet submitted an application to sponsor his immediate family. In fact, she had applied for another member of her family.
“I was trying to sponsor them, and I have my friends and my neighbours who helped me with the bank deposits, but we couldn’t get them out, and that is why they went in the boat,” Tima said Wednesday. “I was even paying rent for them in Turkey
If they'd stayed they would have eventually got out.The father wasn't at the end of his options he should have stayed with his family and waited.
The previous news report of the offer were wrong but getting into that boat was suicidal.
 
bluemanc said:
Its not spin its the truth.The family were offered Canadian Citizenship,i'll repeat THE FAMILY WERE OFFERED CANADIAN CITIZENSHIP.
THEY REFUSED.
I couldnt care less that you are in denial about what the father has done,but it doesn't alter the fact his actions have caused the death of that child on the beach.
As for the dismissing of neighbouring countries REFUSING to take migrants,thats a FACT aswell,
Monkfish is not going to be happy when he decides to google both those facts and finds them to be true.
Notice how both of you have got personal & i haven't bit?finger hovering over the report button at my first go back i'll bet.
Like i said the 2 points are factual,good luck dealing with them.
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Is free speech a right without responsibility? Should you just be allowed to make stuff up and claim it as fact, or even FACT?

Stuff for another thread I suppose

Not sure why you thought I didn't know some (obviously not all) of the neighboring countries refused to take migrants, if you look at my posts you will see I was posting on the very subject yesterday, though you probably read something about Syrians eating there own sisters or some other great FACT
 
bluemanc said:
They didnt reject it,that is false.
The process of application was imminent,they were doing the same for another member of the family,they were even paying the familys rent until they could put it through.
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...ada-rejected-drowned-boys-refugee-application
Earlier reports said Canada rejected a refugee application from the boy’s family in June. But the boy’s B.C.-based aunt clarified Thursday, saying she had not yet submitted an application to sponsor his immediate family. In fact, she had applied for another member of her family.
“I was trying to sponsor them, and I have my friends and my neighbours who helped me with the bank deposits, but we couldn’t get them out, and that is why they went in the boat,” Tima said Wednesday. “I was even paying rent for them in Turkey
If they'd stayed they would have eventually got out.The father wasn't at the end of his options he should have stayed with his family and waited.
The previous news report of the offer were wrong but getting into that boat was suicidal.
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LOL at the backtracking.Why not just say "Yes I was wrong about that"? You really still don't seem to get it. They were stateless refugees stuck in Turkey with little hope of getting out and every chance of being killed if they went back to where they came from in Kobani.Of course they were taking a risk but I bet a pound t a penny that you'd do the same for your family in the same situation.

I've already said that the application was on behalf of the other brother and his family. It took me about 5 minutes to find out what appears to be the truth of the matter yet people still believe that if they read it in the paper or heard it on the telly then it must be right. As Blues, you should know that's simply dangerous.
 
bluemanc said:
It seems to being ignored,infact it doesn't seem,it is.
They refuse point blank to take any,its well reported that they see a large proportion of the migrants as former fighters.
Does seem a disproportionate amount of adult males,
In case anyone has missed it,the father of the child shown dead on the beach AND his family were offered Canadian citizenship,he refused & he then put them on an unsuitable boat & they died.
Strange that his actions are ignored.
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You've delivered that as if the Father was to blame for refusing asylum from the Canadian government and preferred to gamble with his family's lives. A quick 10 minute check would challenge what you've posted as gospel. And I'm not sure at what you're getting at with the 'Does seem a disproportionate amount of adult males' line? I'm sure this has been covered earlier in the thread!!!

Do you have a link to this information regarding Canada offering the whole family asylum before he went on the boat?

I ask as there seems to be some confusion regarding the application for asylum. Abdullah's (the father) brother (Mohammed) and his family did apply but the application was rejected by the Canadian government due to discrepancies with the paperwork.

This is where the confusion has started because it was reported his (Abdullah) family was offered asylum. People misunderstood this to believe Abdullah and his immediate family (his deceased wife and children) were offered asylum, when the reality is his brother (Mohammed) and his immediate family were applying but as stated the paperwork was rejected.

I suppose it's down to semantics as his family were applying (his brother Mohammed and his immediate family). The term family has been taken out of context, it was his brother's (Mohammed) application that was wrongfully reported as apposed to Abdullah's and his wife and children.

This is from the BBC:

Canada denies Alan Kurdi's family applied for asylum

"The Canadian immigration authorities said on Thursday they had no record of receiving an application for refugee status from Alan's father, Abdullah Kurdi."

"But Abdullah's brother, Mohammad, did submit an application, though it was rejected for being incomplete, they added."

Please read the full article on the BBC website here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34142695

Abdullah has since been offered asylum from the Canadian government but has declined due to wanting to be at his wife's and two children's grave.

There are other reports confirming it was his brother who had applied and mistakes were made when the original story was reported. This is from a Canadian news source:

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/canada/british-columbia/syria-migrants-canada-drowned-migrants-1.3213772

If you scroll down you will see a 'corrections' section at the bottom of the article, I've added the statement here.

Corrections
  • A previous version of this story said the family of Alan Kurdi had applied for refugee status in Canada. In fact, no formal application for refugee status was made. An application on behalf of Alan's uncle, Mohammed Kurdi, was received by the Department of Citizenship and Immigration Canada but was returned because, the department said, it was incomplete and did not meet the regulatory requirements for proof of refugee status recognition.
Here is the whole timeline of the incorrect reporting, again from a Canadian news source:

Media Fact Check: What the Press Got Wrong About Alan Kurdi, and What It Got Right

http://canadalandshow.com/article/m...-wrong-about-alan-kurdi-and-what-it-got-right

Here's what Abdullah's sister (Tima) said to the National Post:

“I was trying to sponsor them, and I have my friends and my neighbours who helped me with the bank deposits, but we couldn’t get them out, and that is why they went in the boat,” Tima said Wednesday. “I was even paying rent for them in Turkey, but it is horrible the way they treat Syrians there.”

Read the full article here:

Canada says it never denied a refugee application for Alan Kurdi and his family

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/bl...ada-rejected-drowned-boys-refugee-application

There is also a Twitter link in that article which shows the following statement from the Department of Citizenship and Immigration Canada on the Kurdi family which states:

“The plight of the Syrian people, including the events of yesterday, is a tragedy and we offer our condolences to all those affected.

“An application for Mr Mohammad Kurdi and his family was received by the department but was returned as it was incomplete and it did not meet regulatory requirements for proof of refugee status recognition from the UNHCR or from a foreign state. There was no record of an application received for Mr Abdullah Kurdi and his family.

“Canada did not offer citizenship to Mr Abdullah Kurdi, as claimed by some media outlets.”

Notice the application being widely reported is for Mohammad Kurdi (brother of Abdullah) and his family not Abdullah Kurdi (Father) and his deceased wife and two children.

You can read the statement here, if you're not on Twitter:

http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?nid=1016089
 
jaxxaj said:
The views in this thread are the most "shocking" part.

24 years ago as a 11 year old then i was a refugee, and was living for 12 months in a set up refugee shelter in a neighboring country. In desperate times you'll do anything to survive and to offer your family a better life wherever that may be.

It's always easy to sprout your shite towards something when it doesn't directly affect you.
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Fair play mate, I'm glad you and your family were able to escape whatever hellhole you found yourselves in and were given the opportunity to start a new life. A new life no different from the type of life some over here clearly take for granted.
We're not all unwelcoming bile spewers! ;-)
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
LOL at the backtracking.Why not just say "Yes I was wrong about that"? You really still don't seem to get it. They were stateless refugees stuck in Turkey with little hope of getting out and every chance of being killed if they went back to where they came from in Kobani.Of course they were taking a risk but I bet a pound t a penny that you'd do the same for your family in the same situation.

I've already said that the application was on behalf of the other brother and his family. It took me about 5 minutes to find out what appears to be the truth of the matter yet people still believe that if they read it in the paper or heard it on the telly then it must be right. As Blues, you should know that's simply dangerous.
Click to expand...

Not defending everything bluemamc has said but to be fair, there appears to have been a lot of confusion with this story with even normally reputable outlets such as the BBC getting it wrong and issuing a correction (see above). While I don't trust certain sections of the media, I'd expect the likes of the Beeb to get it right.
 
The Count Of Monte Cristo said:
You've delivered that as if the Father was to blame for refusing asylum from the Canadian government and preferred to gamble with his family's lives. A quick 10 minute check would challenge what you've posted as gospel. And I'm not sure at what you're getting at with the 'Does seem a disproportionate amount of adult males' line? I'm sure this has been covered earlier in the thread!!!

Do you have a link to this information regarding Canada offering the whole family asylum before he went on the boat?

I ask as there seems to be some confusion regarding the application for asylum. Abdullah's (the father) brother (Mohammed) and his family did apply but the application was rejected by the Canadian government due to discrepancies with the paperwork.

This is where the confusion has started because it was reported his (Abdullah) family was offered asylum. People misunderstood this to believe Abdullah and his immediate family (his deceased wife and children) were offered asylum, when the reality is his brother (Mohammed) and his immediate family were applying but as stated the paperwork was rejected.

I suppose it's down to semantics as his family were applying (his brother Mohammed and his immediate family). The term family has been taken out of context, it was his brother's (Mohammed) application that was wrongfully reported as apposed to Abdullah's and his wife and children.

This is from the BBC:

Canada denies Alan Kurdi's family applied for asylum

"The Canadian immigration authorities said on Thursday they had no record of receiving an application for refugee status from Alan's father, Abdullah Kurdi."

"But Abdullah's brother, Mohammad, did submit an application, though it was rejected for being incomplete, they added."

Please read the full article on the BBC website here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34142695

Abdullah has since been offered asylum from the Canadian government but has declined due to wanting to be at his wife's and two children's grave.

There are other reports confirming it was his brother who had applied and mistakes were made when the original story was reported. This is from a Canadian news source:

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/canada/british-columbia/syria-migrants-canada-drowned-migrants-1.3213772

If you scroll down you will see a 'corrections' section at the bottom of the article, I've added the statement here.

Corrections
  • A previous version of this story said the family of Alan Kurdi had applied for refugee status in Canada. In fact, no formal application for refugee status was made. An application on behalf of Alan's uncle, Mohammed Kurdi, was received by the Department of Citizenship and Immigration Canada but was returned because, the department said, it was incomplete and did not meet the regulatory requirements for proof of refugee status recognition.
Here is the whole timeline of the incorrect reporting, again from a Canadian news source:

Media Fact Check: What the Press Got Wrong About Alan Kurdi, and What It Got Right

http://canadalandshow.com/article/m...-wrong-about-alan-kurdi-and-what-it-got-right

Here's what Abdullah's sister (Tima) said to the National Post:

“I was trying to sponsor them, and I have my friends and my neighbours who helped me with the bank deposits, but we couldn’t get them out, and that is why they went in the boat,” Tima said Wednesday. “I was even paying rent for them in Turkey, but it is horrible the way they treat Syrians there.”

Read the full article here:

Canada says it never denied a refugee application for Alan Kurdi and his family

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/bl...ada-rejected-drowned-boys-refugee-application

There is also a Twitter link in that article which shows the following statement from the Department of Citizenship and Immigration Canada on the Kurdi family which states:

“The plight of the Syrian people, including the events of yesterday, is a tragedy and we offer our condolences to all those affected.

“An application for Mr Mohammad Kurdi and his family was received by the department but was returned as it was incomplete and it did not meet regulatory requirements for proof of refugee status recognition from the UNHCR or from a foreign state. There was no record of an application received for Mr Abdullah Kurdi and his family.

“Canada did not offer citizenship to Mr Abdullah Kurdi, as claimed by some media outlets.”

Notice the application being widely reported is for Mohammad Kurdi (brother of Abdullah) and his family not Abdullah Kurdi (Father) and his deceased wife and two children.

You can read the statement here, if you're not on Twitter:

http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?nid=1016089
Click to expand...

Edit

I have just read through the thread and I can see @bluemanc 's lies and bile has been challenged and corrected, I didn't see this before I responded to his incorrect bullshit before I posted the longest post ever.
At least the links are there to follow the 'facts' for those that want to know the truth.
 
The Count Of Monte Cristo said:
Edit

I have just read through the thread and I can see @bluemanc 's lies and bile has been challenged and corrected, I didn't see this before I responded to his incorrect bullshit before I posted the longest post ever.
At least the links are there to follow the 'facts' for those that ant to know the truth.
Click to expand...
Let's not descend to personal attacks by calling people liars. People are far too willing to believe what they read, particularly if it meets their agenda or reinforces their own viewpoint.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
That article is incredible reading and is a salutary lesson to those who take stories in the media at face value.
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We live in dangerous times when people don't bother to spend 10 mins to qualify the truth.

That's all I did. After reading his post about being offered asylum before but decided to put his loved ones on the boat regardless - I thought that couldn't be true - why would a Husband and Father refuse safe passage to Canada.

Like I said, dangerous times when lies are spread across social media and repeated as gospel. It's just proper propaganda.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Let's not descend to personal attacks by calling people liars. People are far too willing to believe what they read, particularly if it meets their agenda or reinforces their own viewpoint.
Click to expand...
Fair enough, that's bad form from me so apologies for that @bluemanc however I did state the 'confusion' elements in my previous long post. Having said that I do agree with @prestwichblue that you have used this to fit your own agenda.
 
How many of these people are we now going to accept? I hope it will be more than the 5000 stated and with it more aid to the others still waiting relocation.
 
The Count Of Monte Cristo said:
Edit

I have just read through the thread and I can see @bluemanc 's lies and bile has been challenged and corrected, I didn't see this before I responded to his incorrect bullshit before I posted the longest post ever.
At least the links are there to follow the 'facts' for those that want to know the truth.
Click to expand...
The Count Of Monte Cristo said:
Fair enough, that's bad form from me so apologies for that @bluemanc however I did state the 'confusion' elements in my previous long post. Having said that I do agree with @prestwichblue that you have used this to fit your own agenda.
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I dont except your apology & dont want 1 anyway,if it was the other way round you would be screaming for a ban.
As for an agenda,i dont have an agenda,the reports were confusing & the reports jumped the gun.
He should not have put his family on that boat,his extended family in Canada was going to apply to get him & his family Canadian citizenship,he must have seen that doing what he was doing was at best stupid.
You obviously think he was right,i'm sure in real life you wouldn't say to someones face what you have said on here so why bother.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/03/us-europe-migrants-turkey-idUSKCN0R30Q820150903
Whats reported their was reported in all other media outlets,i suppose they have an agenda aswell do they.
 
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