Religion

Octavian said:
Mark is the first gospel that is ascribed to be around 70AD, mostly because of the destruction of the Jewish Temple during the war. I think Mark is likely before this though and his sources are even earlier.

Some scholars don’t like to put Mark before 70AD because it would mean Jesus predicted the fall of the temple, rather than the author of Mark knowing this fact post war and attributing the prediction to Jesus but to be frank, a war had been brewing for years between Jews and Romans and it wouldn’t have taken mystic meg to predict the romans would sack the temple.

there was obviously scripture relating to Jesus knocking about before 50-55AD as Paul referenced them in his letters telling his congregation to stop squabbling and to go back to the scripture and the letters are pretty solid in their dating to 50-55AD.

Paul’s letters are the oldest Christian manuscripts dated around 50-55AD but I think there is a chance that Mark, or more likely parts of Mark’s sources he copied, were written earlier… we just don’t have archeological evidence of that so cannot confirm.

I think it’s obvious the information was scatter gunned across the region over decades with scripture here and there about Jesus and oral tradition among generations too. I think the Gospels are just the 4 who put it all together with what they could find. Mark was likely much nearer than John, with Luke and Matthew in between.
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my opinion is mark is writing post the destruction so gives jesus the extra gravitas of knowing the future as a divine being would
just my opinion though but makes sense to me as the jesus of faith is a non starter in my world
 
BlueMoonAcrossThePond said:
This sort of evidence-free thinking has analogues in science as well.

One of them goes as such...

Quantum mechanics holds that the behavior of particles is governed by wave equations describing the probability of events. Even in a complete vacuum, it's possible - although exceedingly unlikely in any given region of space- that objects might pop into existence. It's possible - for example - that your head might pop into existence on it's own in a vacuum - completely divorced from other matter. And that your head might believe exactly as you do now - having the mistaken belief that things you believe transpired in the past also transpired to this disembodied head. And if space is infinite, however unlikely that this disembodied head might pop into existence might be in a finite region of space- it's virtually certain that such doppelganger heads as described above - believing that they are you or me or anyone else - pop in and out of existence all the time - in the infinitude of space.

In other words, you might be a "Boltzmann brain."


I don't believe that you or I are a "Boltzmann brain" or a simulated brain - these sort of ideas are in the realm of "not even wrong."

Not even wrong - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

And so is religion.

As for the "misperceptions" and "ultimate truth" and evolution of the "scientific method" - huh? I've been arguing for belief based in fact and provable, reproducible evidence. Whereas you've been arguing for things that are "not even wrong" - to which you continue to cling.

So - I'll offer several alternatives to your religious beliefs - 1) Ceiling cat; 2) You're a Boltzmann Brain; 3) You're a simulated brain; 4) Your current beliefs. Believe in something that's simultaneously unprovable and irrefutable - something that's "not even wrong": religion.
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Or there is something beyond just beliefs and that is what some religions and spirituality are pointing to - experiencing Life without the filter of the thinking mind.
 
tonea2003 said:
my opinion is mark is writing post the destruction so gives jesus the extra gravitas of knowing the future as a divine being would
just my opinion though but makes sense to me as the jesus of faith is a non starter in my world
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That’s the common opinion among the experts so I don’t necessarily disagree. I just think that it’s not a particularly outlandish prediction, and wouldn’t confirm divine intervention, to predict your oppressors demolishing your sacred building when there had been years of tension. This is why I don’t rule it out that Mark could be earlier.
 
arfurclue said:
Or there is something beyond just beliefs and that is what some religions and spirituality are pointing - experiencing Life without the filter of the thinking mind.
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Along these lines - eat dirt. Bang your head against the wall. Jump in a large body of water and keep diving down and down and down (actually don't fucking do any of these things!).

Humans are thinking beings. You and I. We base our actions on what we see and believe to be true. Moreover we base our society on facts established by evidence. Thanks to the scientific method we have computers, smart phones, bridges that don't fall down (mostly), roads, cars, planes, and on and on and on.

"Experiencing Life without the filter of the thinking mind" - what a frightful thought!
 
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