Russian invasion of Ukraine

El_george said:
Sorry if this has already been asked, but can someone enlighten me....? So Poland are sending 14 tanks to Ukraine, and we have promised 12..... what is the use of that?

In WWII at the battle of Kursk Germany attacked Russia with 2,700 tanks and motorised guns and were defeated by a force even larger. The biggest tank battle in history: approx 6000 in total.

How come 80 years later we expect such small numbers to make any impact on this current war. Yes, I know these tanks will be considerably more powerful with all sorts of modern technology, but why so few?

Even if - as I have heard - they are significantly better than the Russian tanks in use in 2022/23, surely the numbers will be an issue. Again in WWII the Sherman tank was inferior to the German tanks, but just by dint of the numbers built and the numbers put into the conflict, the allies won in the end.

Will just 26 modern tanks really make a difference? or is it just a political issue to say help is being given, even if it won't really help in the long run.
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Was just listening to C4 news. Apparently 100 tanks or so are expected from various countries.

Expert on there ("Hamish de Double-Barrel") was adamant it was an absolute game changer when challenged with your question. Everyone who knows about this stuff seems to agree - ability to punch through defended areas and get behind Russian lines without being taken out seems to be the gist of it AFAICT.

More interestingly still, was a suggestion that the sackings for corruption today were linked too - ie Germans weren't giving their tanks until Zelensky cleaned house. Not sure how much truth there is in that.

Germans normally do the right thing in the end.
 
El_george said:
Sorry if this has already been asked, but can someone enlighten me....? So Poland are sending 14 tanks to Ukraine, and we have promised 12..... what is the use of that?

In WWII at the battle of Kursk Germany attacked Russia with 2,700 tanks and motorised guns and were defeated by a force even larger. The biggest tank battle in history: approx 6000 in total.

How come 80 years later we expect such small numbers to make any impact on this current war. Yes, I know these tanks will be considerably more powerful with all sorts of modern technology, but why so few?

Even if - as I have heard - they are significantly better than the Russian tanks in use in 2022/23, surely the numbers will be an issue. Again in WWII the Sherman tank was inferior to the German tanks, but just by dint of the numbers built and the numbers put into the conflict, the allies won in the end.

Will just 26 modern tanks really make a difference? or is it just a political issue to say help is being given, even if it won't really help in the long run.
Click to expand...
Not sure I can answer in full but here are some key points.

Range and advanced targeting make these things far more effective than anything in ww2. They could only hit what they could see. Add in drones and Russians are going to have their heads down even more.

Speed, they can do 40mph for hours on end. An older tank is slower but also needs more fuel stops. They can drive into Russian territory and flush them out.

Then you have armour, they can take hits. So again you drive in to enemy territory take some hits but kill what tries to hit you.

It's also worth pointing out that the crews and maintenance support tends to be the limiting factor in tank battles. Tanks are only as good as the training of the crew. I heard as many as 100 tanks are available. Do they have enough crew?
 
CTID1977 said:
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muahaha-rire.gif
 
jrb said:

The US and its allies want Ukraine to change its battlefield tactics in the spring​




Germany has decided to deliver Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine, German newspaper reports

edition.cnn.com

January 24, 2023 - Russia-Ukraine news

The US is finalizing plans to send approximately 30 US-made Abrams tanks to Ukraine, according to two officials familiar with the deliberations.
edition.cnn.com edition.cnn.com
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Magot dick will be fuming,we await the usual response of we will turn you all to ash
 
SPIDERBOY said:
All this kit getting sent to Ukraine,fuck me.
Add to it the Aircraft the US will send.....The Russians will be running for the border.
I'm convinced,by the way,it will be the A-10 Warthog/Thunderbolt.

Slava Ukraini.
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If Ukraine needs any pilots…BM has a few chaps who can fly that in a simulator ;)
 
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El_george said:
Sorry if this has already been asked, but can someone enlighten me....? So Poland are sending 14 tanks to Ukraine, and we have promised 12..... what is the use of that?

In WWII at the battle of Kursk Germany attacked Russia with 2,700 tanks and motorised guns and were defeated by a force even larger. The biggest tank battle in history: approx 6000 in total.

How come 80 years later we expect such small numbers to make any impact on this current war. Yes, I know these tanks will be considerably more powerful with all sorts of modern technology, but why so few?

Even if - as I have heard - they are significantly better than the Russian tanks in use in 2022/23, surely the numbers will be an issue. Again in WWII the Sherman tank was inferior to the German tanks, but just by dint of the numbers built and the numbers put into the conflict, the allies won in the end.

Will just 26 modern tanks really make a difference? or is it just a political issue to say help is being given, even if it won't really help in the long run.
Click to expand...

1st wave of them. More will be sent.

Ukrainian forces need to be trained to use them.

Same reason HIMARS were a slow roll out.

Plus in the grand scheme of things. In modern warfare, tanks are pretty useless. When you look at the last few US wars for example, it’s all air superiority. If a force has it then no matter how good the tanks are, they go boom. So numbers are a lot smaller than they used to be as they are only a small part of modern warfare. Back in WW2 they were a massive part of warfare.
 
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